Is é seo an dara mír de chruinniú an lae inniu. Táimid anois chun breathnú ar an 20% d’earcaithe sa tseirbhís phoiblí a bheidh ina bhfostaithe dátheangacha ó 2030, agus na cúrsaí a bheidh gá leo a sholáthar chun oiliúint dhátheangach a chur ar fáil dóibh, le finnéithe ón bhForas Riaracháin. Táim sásta fáilte a chur roimh Helen Brophy, atá ina hardstiúrthóir san Fhoras Riaracháin, agus Noreen Fahy, atá ina leas-stiúrthóir agus rúnaí cuideachta san fhoras. Cuirim ar an taifead go bhfuil na finnéithe go léir ag freastal ar an gcruinniú ó sheomra coiste 3, taobh istigh de phurláin Thithe an Oireachtais.

Sula leanaimid ar aghaidh, tá sé de dhualgas orm na rialacha agus na treoracha seo a leanas a leagan faoi bhráid na bhfinnéithe uile. Meabhraím dóibh a chinntiú go bhfuil a ngutháin shoghluaiste múchta le linn an chruinnithe mar is féidir leis na gléasanna sin cur isteach ar an gcóras craolacháin, eagarthóireachta agus fuaime. Tá an rogha ag comhaltaí freastal ar an gcruinniú go fisiciúil sa seomra coiste nó go fíorúil ar Microsoft Teams ar an gcoinníoll, i gcás cruinnithe phoiblí, gur óna n-oifigí i dTithe an Oireachtais a dhéantar sin. Is riachtanas bunreachtúil é sin. Nuair atá comhaltaí ag freastal óna n-oifigí, ba chóir dóibh a bhfíseáin a bheith ar siúl an t-am go léir agus iad féin le feiceáil ar an scáileán. Baineann an coinníoll seo le finnéithe freisin agus iad ag freastal ar an gcruinniú go fíorúil. Chomh maith leis sin, ba chóir dóibh a chinntiú go bhfuil na micreafóin múchta nuair nach bhfuil siad ag caint.

Cuirim ar aird na bhfinnéithe go bhfuil, de bhua Bhunreacht na hÉireann agus reachtaíocht araon, finnéithe faoi chosaint ag lánphribhléid maidir leis an bhfianaise a thugann siad don chomhchoiste chomh fada is atá siad lonnaithe laistigh de phurláin Thithe an Oireachtais agus an fhianaise sin á tabhairt acu. Is fíric é nach féidir leis na finnéithe brath ar an gcosaint sin agus fianaise á tabhairt acu lasmuigh de phurláin Thithe an Oireachtais. Molaim d’fhinnéithe a bheith cúramach agus fianaise á tabhairt acu, agus má ordaím dóibh éirí as fianaise a thabhairt i leith ní áirithe, ba chóir dóibh amhlaidh a dhéanamh láithreach. Ordaítear dóibh gan aon fhianaise a thabhairt nach fianaise í a bhaineann le hábhar na n-imeachtaí atá á bplé againn. Ba chóir dóibh a bheith ar an eolas go ndéanfar na ráitis tosaigh a chuir siad faoi bhráid an chomhchoiste a fhoilsiú ar shuíomh gréasáin an chomhchoiste tar éis an chruinnithe seo.

Iarrtar ar fhinnéithe agus ar chomhaltaí araon cleachtadh parlaiminte a urramú nár chóir, más féidir, daoine nó eintiteas a cháineadh ná líomhaintí a dhéanamh ina n-aghaidh ná tuairimí a thabhairt maidir leo ina ainm, ina hainm nó ina n-ainm nó ar shlí go bhféadfaí iad a aithint. Chomh maith leis sin, iarrtar orthu gan aon rud a rá a bhféadfaí breathnú air mar ábhar díobhálach do dhea-chlú aon duine nó eintiteas. Mar sin, dá bhféadfadh a ráiteas a bheith clúmhillteach do dhuine nó eintiteas aitheanta, ordóidh mé dóibh éirí as an ráiteas láithreach. Tá sé ríthábhachtach go ngéilleann siad leis an ordú sin láithreach. An nglactar leis na treoracha sin? Glactar leo.

Cuirfimid an cruinniú ar fionraí go dtí go bhfuil an córas aistriúcháin ar fáil. We will suspend for a few minutes while we get the translation.

Iarraim ar Helen Brophy a ráiteas tosaigh a dhéanamh.

I thank members of the committee for the invitation to attend today and to contribute to its consideration of the 20% target for Irish language usage in the public service to be achieved by 2030, and the courses that must be provided to enable public servants to acquire Irish language proficiency. I am Helen Brophy and I am the Director General of the Institute of Public Administration, IPA. I am joined today by our deputy director general and company secretary, Noreen Fahy.

I will start with a bit of introduction about the IPA itself. The IPA exists to support a capable, confident and effective public service in Ireland. Our purpose is to strengthen the capability and leadership required to meet complex demands, make informed evidence-based decisions and contribute, ultimately, to better public services for the people of Ireland. We do this through learning and leadership development that is evidence-based, practice-led and focused on application at a whole-of-government level. We are a trusted, Government-supported institution, we provide an open and inclusive space for learning, reflection and exchange across the public service, and we bring people together across organisational and sectoral boundaries from Civil Service to local government and non-commercial State agency sector, to strengthen and build a shared understanding, professional standards and continuous improvement across the public service.

Our role dates back to 1957 as an institution. The IPA is founded on long-standing academic credibility, professional expertise and a deep understanding of how public services are designed, governed and delivered in Ireland. This reflects our leadership in shaping future public service capability development. We engage with public servants at all stages of their careers, from early career professionals - new entrants, for example - to senior leaders, across a wide range of functions and policy domains. We help to build shared standards, common understanding and consistent approaches to public service challenges, while recognising the diversity of organisational contexts and responsibilities.

Our new strategy, the IPA Statement of Strategy 2026-2030 Foghlaim don Amárach, of which we have brought a hard copy for all members, was launched just last week by the Minister for Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, Deputy Jack Chambers. At the heart of this strategy for the next five years is a very clear proposition: that learning is a strategic lever for strengthening public-service capability, leadership and delivery in all aspects of public policy and public administration. The strategy sets out the new direction of the IPA for the period 2026 to 2028, with a forwardlooking two-year horizon to 2030. It builds on the progress achieved under the previous strategy A New Era of Learning, 2022–2025, focusing on impact and application at scale. There are four strategic pillars that focus on our role as the empowering learning partner for the public service, with our digital programmes delivered across a new shared digital learning ecosystem. Collectively, we will host the pre-eminent centre for learning excellence, enabled by organisational impact delivered through our one IPA delivery and operating model. This framework provides clarity for our partners across government and the wider public service and a disciplined basis for prioritisation and delivery.

Moving on to the IPA's role in Irish-language provision, Irish-language provision was integrated into the IPA’s portfolio in 2024 by default on the transfer of the OneLearning service, which is an online learning platform for the Civil Service, that transferred from the Department of Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation to the IPA. Provision of Irish-language courses through OneLearning commenced in 2018 using this online learning platform for the Civil Service. Now, under the IPA’s direction, provision has continued to expand, with a strong increase in the number of people undertaking these courses in the last two years.

Our current provision is centred on accredited Irish-language training aligned to recognised national standards. Courses are designed around the Teastas Eorpach na Gaeilge, TEG, syllabuses, and are delivered across levels A1 to C1, ensuring a clear progression pathway for learners. These levels are aligned to the Common European Framework of Reference for Languages, which is specifically referenced in the Official Languages (Amendment) Act 2021. Courses are delivered in a biannual cycle aligned with national examination schedules, with a strong focus on practical language use, particularly oral competence, with learners sitting the TEG oral language exam on completion of the course. Delivery is provided through a strategic partnership with Gaelchultúr, and examination is handled directly by Maynooth University as administrator of TEG examinations.

Moving on to progress in action over the last two years, which I am sure is where the committee would like to focus, the effectiveness of this model is reflected in outcomes that are supporting measurable capability development across the system. First, it is important to note the level of goodwill and positivity towards the Irish language. It is impressive, with strong demand across our courses over the last two years. In 2025, for example, over 700 learners from across 39 Departments and Civil Service organisations sat TEG examinations across the five levels. It is not just about undertaking the courses; it is also about succeeding in the examinations. Over the lifetime of course provision, 84% of learners who have attended a course proceed to sit the examinations, and the pass rates are consistently strong, with an overall pass rate of close to 90%. Over 600 civil servants have achieved B1 to C1 certification in oral Irish, levels typically recognised as a benchmark for the competence needed to support delivery of the target that 20% of recruits can work through Irish by 2030. In addition, nearly 10% of learners have progressed to a higher level, further strengthening this capability pipeline.

Our work in this area supports the Government’s action plan for the Irish language, particularly in strengthening system capacity through structured learning pathways, expanded access to training, and supports for working in a bilingual environment. Since the publication of the action plan, we have taken several concrete steps to progress this agenda, very much in close consultation and collaboration with our colleagues in the Department of Rural and Community Development and the Gaeltacht. We have reintroduced advanced-level provision, which has supported increased uptake and progressions to higher levels of qualification. We have introduced targeted short courses to support the use of Irish in the European Presidency, in addition to developing a suite of self-paced resources to support the practical use of Irish in a workplace context. As part of our wider strategy, we are developing a structured learning framework to bring coherence across all our provision. Within this, the Irish language will be established as a distinct learning pathway for the first time, informed by ongoing engagement with stakeholders to define progression, address gaps and shape future development.

One of the biggest developments we have as part of our new strategy is the development of a shared digital learning ecosystem for the public service.

This will replace the current OneLearning service. We are procuring a new learning experience platform that will replace the current platform. Access is currently confined to 50,000 learners within the Civil Service, but the LXP will enable extension of access to the wider public service with the objective of providing access to one in four public servants by 2030. That number is one in eight and confined to the Civil Service. Of significance is the fact that as part of the procurement for this new platform, we have stipulated within the specification requirements that the system will be available in Irish. Looking to the future, we play a small part but the IPA is confident we will continue our progress in collaboration with the Department of Rural and Community Development and the Gaeltacht on the action plan for 2026-2028.

There are two key dependency factors worth noting. First, participation in Irish-language training is determined at organisational level, including the availability of funding and the ability to release staff for sustained learning. That is an important consideration.

Second, the capacity to deliver courses is constrained by the availability of providers at national level. Whilst on one side, greater participation may be supported, this is also enabled by the ability to cater for and meet that demand. The IPA looks forward to continuing to work with the Department in the continued promotion of the Irish language and developing further resource delivery capacity in conjunction with the third level sector. Equally, there are also opportunities to enhance how accredited learning progresses, with greater resourcing, for example, greater flexibility in examination scheduling including more frequent sittings, and expanded access arrangements which will support learners to progress at pace and enable provision to scale more effectively across the year. Again, this aligns with the delivery of greater resource delivery capacity.

In conclusion, the IPA is making a positive, small contribution towards the usage of the Irish language within the public service which we will continue. Through accredited learning pathways, system-wide training infrastructure and partnership-based provision, we support Departments and public bodies to build and sustain Irish language capability within their organisations. We are committed to continuing our support and delivery across the system, and we welcome the opportunity to discuss our role further with the committee.

Molaim go mbeidh seacht nóiméad ag gach aon chomhalta sa bhabhta seo má tá sé sin inghlactha. Tosóidh mé leis an Teachta Ó Snodaigh agus ansin an Teachta Connolly. Gabhaim buíochas leis na finnéithe. Tá sé go hiontach go bhfuil siad os ár gcomhair. Cé mhéad duine atá sa Státchóras faoi láthair?

There are approximately 50,000 people in the Civil Service. That is the maximum number in the Civil Service today.

Maidir leis na cúrsaí a chuireann an Státseirbhís ar fáil, cé mhéad duine a dhéanann staidéar ar ábhair eile?

Is that outside of the Irish language?

Yes.

In 2025, we had 27,000 participants and students undertaking some form of course in the IPA. That might have been from our accredited side, such as our bachelor programme right up to a doctoral programme, or it might have been simply a one-day course or an online learning engagement on our learning platform. In total, it comes to that number annually.

Tá sé go maith go ndearna 700 duine ó 39 Roinn cúrsa anuraidh. Bhí cúrsaí ag leibhéil difriúla TEG i gceist. An gcomhraítear daoine sa Státchóras atá ag obair d’eagrais Stáit seachas díreach don Roinn? An gcomhraítear daoine atá ag obair in iarsmalann mar shampla nó a leithéid d’Fhoras na Gaeilge? Ba chóir go mbeadh Gaeilge ag éinne atá ag obair d’Fhoras na Gaeilge.

Absolutely. That is a really good question. The Irish courses are provided through the OneLearning digital learning platform. That platform as it stands today is only available to Civil Service staff. It is not available to the wider public service staff as we speak. However, we are in the process of procuring this new learning experience platform and the intent is that that will be rolled out across the public service. It is not just for Irish language provision. There are roughly 425,000 public servants in the system. One in eight of those public servants has access to the OneLearning platform that delivers those Irish courses. When the new learning experience platform is procured and implemented that will steadily rise, and by 2030, within our new statement of strategy, we have set a target that that will be available to 110,00 public servants from a base of 50,000 today. What we see in relation to the non-commercial State agency sector and museums is there will be lots of opportunity to engage much more extensively with the public service on that basis.

Partly the reason why this learning platform is so significant is when we want to scale and build capacity, not just for the benefit of the Irish language but equally across a lot of our portfolio, the technology and learning capability that exists in these platforms is hugely significant. We are not just upgrading from the current learning management system that is in place. The new learning experience platform has much more functionality, with AI-enabled features and high levels of automation. The intent is we will be able to drive engagement with the platform much more extensively than what we have today. All of that will no doubt have a huge significance in terms of people being able to access Irish language courses as we extend that service going forward. We are in the procurement process and expect the learning platform to come into effect in the latter half of 2027. From there on we will start to scale out to the public service. The Irish language is very much in the first phase of expansion. It is planned to be included in the first phase of delivery of that platform. From 2028, we will start to see that expansion to the public service.

Tá sé tábhachtach go bhfuil sé sin ag tarlúint agus tá súil agam go n-éireoidh go maith leis toisc an sprioc nua atá ann ó thaobh Gaeilge a bheith ag 20% dóibh siúd atá earcaithe, agus an leasú a rinneadh le déanaí go bhfuil daoine atá laistigh den chóras agus ag iarraidh cur isteach ar phostanna níos airde san áireamh. Tá súil agam go mbeidh brú mór ar na finnéithe ó thaobh iarratais ar na cúrsaí seo.

Ó thaobh Gaelchultúr de, cad é an nasc atá idir an Státchóras agus Gaelchultúr? Déanann Gaelchultúr cúrsaí a chur ar fáil tríd OneLearning chomh maith. An é an rud ceannann céanna é?

Gaelchultúr is effectively contracted by the IPA to provide the courses. That is our relationship with it.

Maidir leis an gcuid is mó de na cúrsaí don 700 duine a bhí ag gabháil de chúrsaí Gaeilge anuraidh, an ar líne a raibh siad ar fad, nó i seomraí ranga? An raibh tréimhsí ag freastal ar chúrsaí sa Ghaeltacht i gceist chomh maith?

They are online through the OneLearning platform. That is in what we call a "live instructor" format. Even though the learner is online, he or she is very much in a classroom-based environment, and the courses are delivered by live instructors. Those courses do not involve anything outside OneLearning as such, for example time in the Gaeltacht. The courses are provided online and students sit examinations in Maynooth on the biannual cycle I mentioned.

An fáth gur chuir mé ceist nó go raibh dream os ár gcomhair coicís nó trí sheachtain ó shin agus bhí siad ag caint ar státseirbhísigh nó oibrí Stáit ag dul ar thréimhsí sa Ghaeltacht áit a mbeadh siad in ann obair i gteiceanna nó hubs agus an Ghaeilge a fhoghlaim ag an am céanna. D'fhéadfaí an rud céanna a dhéanamh ó thaobh foghlaim na Gaeilge. Bheadh oibrithe ag foghlaim ar chúrsaí agus lasmuigh sa phobal. D’fhéadfaí sin a dhéanamh amach anseo.

Tá an Teachta Ó Snodaigh tar éis cúpla de na ceisteanna a bhí agamsa a chur cheana.

Tá brón orm.

Is cuma. Cuirfidh mé mo chéad cheist. An bhfuil costas ar na cúrsaí seo do na hoibrithe?

Currently, it is the organisations that pay for the courses. The process is such that, when individuals are asked or willingly decide themselves to attend one of these courses, they have to receive approval from their line manager. Every Government Department will have a learning and development budget for the year and will have allocated a certain amount. Once that line approval is given from the Department, individuals can apply for the course. We invoice the Department directly. That is the process by which it works. We operate the courses on a full cost recovery basis, which means we charge the cost to the participating organisation. The role of the staff member is to avail of the course and to make their best efforts to succeed in the examinations.

An bhfuil buiséad ag chuile Roinn lena aghaidh sin?

Each Department will have its own way of organising its own learning and development priorities. On our experience to date over the last two years, there are 39 organisations represented, which shows a very strong willingness to learn Irish across Departments. The IPA would not have sight of their specific budget allocations for these courses. Different Departments will have different demands. Certain Departments are more front-facing and deal with people more whereas others may have more people working on policy and not engaging with citizens or people as much. I imagine there will be variance in budget allocations on that basis but, as I have said, I do not have sight of those budgets.

Cén chaoi a n-oibríonn sé nuair a shocraíonn oibrithe gur mhaith leo cúrsa Gaeilge a dhéanamh? Tá orthu iarratas a dhéanamh dá Roinn féin, an bhfuil?

Yes. It is the same with any other course they might want to undertake within their Department. The learning and development teams within the organisations will have their own learning and development strategies and will have set priorities for their own Departments. Part of that will absolutely include the Irish language but it will obviously be broader than that. Within that, you will have individuals who have a specific reason or motivation or who wish to step up. They simply discuss it with their line manager and, with that manager's approval, make the application to the IPA. We then register them to the course.

Anuraidh, rinne 700 staidéar ar an nGaeilge. An féidir é sin a chur i gcomparáid leis na hábhair eile a bhfuil deis acu staidéar a dhéanamh orthu?

There are currently no other accredited courses on the OneLearning platform. The Irish language is the only area in which you can undertake examinations as part of the course. From that point of view, it is quite unique. While there are more than 20,000 people engaging with the OneLearning platform, that might involve a two-hour self-paced e-learning course on a particular new policy. The Irish language course is unique in that those 700 learners are progressing to examinations. As we have said, the pass rate is almost 90%. That is certainly unique in the current level of service provision.

Tá sé sin go maith. Ar an gceist dheireanach a bhí ag an Teachta Ó Snodaigh maidir leis an ngrúpa a bhí anseo cúpla seachtain ó shin, bhí siad ag iarraidh tús a chur le scéim nó cúrsa i gceantair Ghaeltachta. Dúirt siad linn go bhfuil deis ann mar gheall go bhfuil hub Gteic ann. Dúirt siad go mbeadh daoine in ann freastal ar an obair agus, chomh maith leis sin, staidéar a dhéanamh ar an nGaeilge le linn an lae. Bheadh siad ag fanacht i gceantair Ghaeltachta, áit a bhfuil an Ghaeilge mar ghnáth-theanga phobail. An bhfeiceann na finnéithe go mbeadh éileamh ar chúrsa mar sin?

There could well be demand for such a course. However, I imagine that the decision to attend a course and be away from the office would be one for the Department or organisation. As I have said, we do not get involved in that part of it. It is very much driven by the Departments and organisations themselves. To be positive, we are definitely seeing a really positive increase in demand for these courses. If such a course was scoped and developed further, I have no doubt that there would be an appetite among public servants to do it. The question would be how it would work with the organisational responsibilities of the Department or organisations. There are also the logistics and practicalities of it, such as how to deal with releasing people.

Ní a fhios ag an IPA an bhfaigheann oibrithe am saoire le haghaidh na hoibre atá ar siúl acu sa chúrsa.

I am not the appropriate person to comment any further on it. The role of the IPA is effectively to provide the service. As I have said, the decision as to whether somebody takes a course or not is not made by the IPA. That is determined by their own organisation. It would not be appropriate for me to give the Deputy any false reassurances on that.

Cuirfidh mé mo chuid ceisteanna as Béarla, má tá sé sin all right. I have just a couple of questions. The IPA seems to be very much demand-led. From the report, I do not get the sense that there is great momentum within the Civil Service as regards the target for 2030. That is reflected in the IPA's activities and planning. What would the witnesses say to that?

On the plan that is in place for the 20% target, we are very much part of an ecosystem that is contributing to that. Two years ago, prior to 2024, the IPA did not have a role in Irish language provision. This is a new responsibility we have taken on. I have to disagree with the Deputy. It may not come across in the statement but we are prioritising this, given the range of demands we face right across the portfolio. Looking at where we are going on the new learning platform, the scale and expansion of capacity is really what is critical. We can have a huge amount of momentum but the organisations have to approve and release the staff to do the courses and we need available providers to meet that demand. What we currently have with Gaelchultúr is working very well. The demand is being met. We have not had to disappoint anybody who wanted to undertake a course as a result of the course not being available. In our world of education, you are always very conscious of making sure you have the provision and capacity to deliver against the demand. Naturally, we have to be demand-led in that regard. I might ask my colleague, Ms Fahy, to come in here. We are slightly different from other equivalent State bodies in that regard. We operate on a full cost recovery basis. It might be worth our company secretary, Ms Fahy, giving a little bit more insight on that point because it is the rationale for how we operate.

The IPA is a body under the aegis of the Department of public expenditure and reform. We are not a formal State body under statute. We receive a grant to support us in our endeavours but we are a commercial body running what is effectively a full cost recovery model. We charge for our services.

We charge for our services and have fee income. We are demand-led. The conversation has been interesting as to where the drivers are for the demand. As Ms Brophy outlined, we are charged by our client organisations that exist within the Civil Service and the wider public service to provide programmes that suit the demand, need and direction of the public service in general.

Effectively, the Department of public expenditure is the parent body of the IPA.

Yes, it is our parent body.

What Ms Fahy is really saying is that the Department of public expenditure needs to say so. The Department of public expenditure will be the primary driver in this regard. We had some witnesses before this committee previously who highlighted that the Department of public expenditure has a key role to play in planning for the Irish language when it comes to this transition and meeting the target. Does the IPA need a stronger plan from that Department? What is it that the IPA does not have at the moment?

On one level, I was expecting this to be worked out. For example, we have to get to 50,000, and 20% of 50,000 is 10,000. Therefore, the numbers are thus that we will have to put X amount of people through the IPA or some other channel every year to achieve the target. Is the IPA having that level of discussion?

I will come back in here. It is a good question. Where the Department of public expenditure is fully supporting us is in funding this new learning platform. The Deputy spoke about specific numbers, but 20% is a big number. We have to look at how we are going to scale and be able to grow those courses. Relying on the traditional ways of learning and teaching is not going to give us that capacity to scale. Where we are absolutely getting support and commitment from the Department of public expenditure is in building that workforce and organisation of the future, which is in line with our better public services 2030 transformation strategy. That is where this digital learning platform comes in. A basis for scaling, learning and learning provision is needed, not just for the Irish language but across the board.

A system-wide impact can only be delivered when it is done at scale. The first part is the technology and ensuring we have the basis to develop that capacity. Once that technology is in place, there is the capacity to look at self-paced learning in a much more interactive way than we currently have today. There is the basis for running self-tests and course assessments offline on self-paced formats. There is also the possibility of AI authoring tools for content. While the Irish language is not covered at the moment across most of the providers of this software, it will come. Certainly, we are making it mandatory in the requirements for the specification that the platform itself be available in Irish. From there, the opportunity comes to build the content and use the AI-enabled features.

To be fair, the support is very much being strategically placed. It is about building that scale and impact across the system. I do not see that we have any issue with regard to support on that basis. It is more about understanding how we are going to drive learning across the public services using digital transformation as that basis.

I am conscious of the clog. Tá ceist sciobtha amháin eile. Others have mentioned Forbairt Chonamara Láir Teo. Witnesses from that organisation were before the committee recently. Effectively, it is a co-operative in the west of Ireland. It has accommodation relationships with the mná tí. It provides entertainment and has facilities, etc. As Deputy Connolly mentioned, it also has a Gteic, which is a remote working hub. There is a nascent opportunity to get something going for areas like that and provide Irish-language immersive learning for those in the Civil Service. Is that something the IPA would be interested in collaborating with? It is a huge opportunity. Would the IPA be interested in collaborating on that basis?

We can look to see what the possibility of collaboration is in that regard. At the moment, we report to the Department of Rural and Community Development and the Gaeltacht regarding the action plan. Certainly, we would not have any issue at all in opening a conversation about opportunities that are within our scope and remit where we can assist and participate.

Gabhaim buíochas leis na finnéithe agus gabhaim leithscéal as an moill.

Tá sé ceart go leor.

Tá cúpla ceist agam. Baineann siad leis na cúrsaí atá á gcur ar fáil ag an bhForas Riaracháin. Cuirim fáilte roimh líon na gcúrsaí atá ar fáil. Tá sé thar a bheith dearfach é sin a chloisteáil. Ó thaobh ábhair na gcúrsaí sin, an ndírítear ar an nGaeilge amháin, nó an mbíonn gnéithe den saol sa Státseirbhís á gclúdach sna cúrsaí sin chomh maith? Mar shampla, an bhfuil cúrsa Gaeilge ar fáil do dhaoine atá ag leibhéal bainistíochta níos sinsearaí, ina múintear na téarmaí agus an cur chuige atá ag teastáil do ról an bhainisteora shinsearaigh, chomh maith leis an leibhéal Gaeilge atá de dhíth, nó an cúrsaí iad seo a dhíríonn ar chumas duine sa teanga amháin?

The numbers that we have provided this morning, including the figure of 700 learners, are very much based on Irish-language provision. In the past two years, there has been a particular focus on the use of Irish in the European Presidency because that is where there has been a significant demand. We have courses in that regard. We have also developed a suite of self-paced resources that people can look into themselves about the workings of the public and Civil Service. We have ventured into that territory in a small way. The use of Irish for the Presidency is where the demand is at the moment. Into the future, such an approach is possible, particularly with the new learning platform. We will have the possibility of expanding in that way.

Tá spéis agam go bhfuil an Uachtaránacht ar Chomhairlí na nAirí ag cothú éilimh ar na cúrsaí Gaeilge. Céard go díreach atá de dhíth ar Státseirbhísigh i leith Uachtaránacht an Aontais Eorpaigh ó thaobh na Gaeilge de? Cad é atá ag tiomáint an éilimh sin?

It is a recognition of the importance of the Irish language, to be quite honest. There is a sense of pride and duty that we should be able to do this as a country. Certainly, from where the IPA sits, we have been happy to work with the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade on a more extensive learning intervention around the essentials for public servants, such as understanding the workings and the responsibilities involved in the Presidency. The Irish language very much sits at the heart of that. That is recognised. It is about putting the best foot forward and embracing the Irish language in that regard. It is coming from a very good place.

That is great. Cuireann an Foras Riaracháin cúrsaí eile ar fáil. Sular toghadh chun na Dála mé, bhí mé i mo léachtóir páirtaimseartha ar cheann de na cúrsaí sin, an BA i riaracháin poiblí. An bhféadfaí a leithéid de chúrsa a chur ar fáil trí mheán na Gaeilge? Déanaim trácht ar chúrsaí nach mbaineann leis an nGaeilge iad féin. Cuireann an Foras Riaracháin an-chuid cúrsaí atá thar a bheith spéisiúil ar fáil. Nuair a bhíonn an comhchoiste seo ag labhairt le hinstitiúidí breisoideachais agus ardoideachais, meabhraíonn muid dóibh, cé go bhfuil sé tábhachtach go mbíonn cáilíochtaí ar fáil sa Ghaeilge, go bhfuil sé chomh tábhachtach céanna gur féidir an teagasc agus foghlaim a dhéanamh trí mheán na Gaeilge, pé disciplín atá i gceist. An bhfuil sé ar intinn ag an bhForas Riaracháin é sin a dhéanamh amach anseo?

That is the point I was making earlier in relation to the capacity to deliver. That is the key constraint in that regard. The IPA is very much open to this. While I know there is work ongoing in the third level sector, looking at where we currently stand, we need to increase the capacity to deliver courses. At the moment, the IPA is reliant on Gaelchultúr and other external assistance. It will take some time to increase that capacity. It requires collaboration and working in conjunction with the Department and the third level sector to see what might be possible.

The Cathaoirleach is correct in saying that there is an extensive portfolio of specialist courses right across the sectors within the public service.

There is a deep knowledge and understanding of the public service within the IPA that does not exist anywhere else in the country. If there is an opportunity to look at how those courses could be provided in Irish with the assistance of the third level sector and the Department, we would very much be open to considering that.

An gceapann Helen Brophy go mbeadh aon bhac á chur air sin ag an Roinn caiteachais phoiblí? Táim ag smaoineamh ar an bpleanáil fórsa saothair nó fórsa oibre a bheadh de dhíth chun a leithéid a dhéanamh.

As my colleague, Ms Fahy, has pointed out, the constraint we have at all times is that we operate on a full cost recovery model. We are different from other State bodies in that sense. To be honest with the Cathaoirleach, that is our concern. The Department of public expenditure and reform is our parent Department and we report to it but we have an understanding. We are running the IPA today very successfully commercially. It is to everybody's benefit, and to the benefit of achieving this target for the Irish language, that there is a sustainable financial model for the type of body the IPA is. That provides you with a very strong foundation on which to go forward. Our only requirement is that it would have to operate on a full cost recovery basis if the IPA is to cover the cost and that we would have to have capacity to deliver.

Chun nach mbeidh aon dabht ann, is eiseamláir iontach é an IPA de conas oideachas ar ardchaighdeán a chur ar fáil don Státseirbhís. Cuireann sé gliondar croí orm a chloisteáil go bhfuil na finnéithe ag tógáil é seo chomh dáiríre céanna. Maidir leis na rudaí ar fad atá ráite ó thaobh na costais a fháil ar ais agus na cúrsaí a chur ar fáil, is é sin an cur chuige inbhuanaithe atá de dhíth. Ba chóir go mbeidh sé seo ina mhúnla don earnáil phoiblí amach anseo agus go mbeidh sé hardwired isteach san earcaíocht agus i ngach aon rud a dhéanaimid. Cuirim fáilte is fiche roimhe sin.

Tá ceist amháin thapa dheiridh agam. Ó thaobh an ratha atá ar na cúrsaí seo, an bhfuil aon chás-staidéar nó fianaise ag na finnéithe maidir le hathrú atá tar éis tarlú in ionaid oibre na ndaoine atá tar éis freastal ar chúrsaí Gaeilge an IPA? An bhfuil aon fhianaise ann go bhfuil níos mó Gaeilge anois á húsáid i Ranna Rialtais agus codanna eile den earnáil phoiblí toisc go ndearna ardbhainisteoir ceann de na cúrsaí Gaeilge seo? Dá mba rud é go bhfuil, bheadh sé iontach dá bhfeicfí iad agus dá gcruthófaí mar shamplaí den dea-chleachtas iad. An bhfuil a leithéid ann?

The main evidence we have to date is the pass rate for the examinations. When you have a pass rate of close to 90% in the examinations, it tells you that people are committed because the examinations require a reasonable level of input. Anecdotally, there is certainly a strong positive demand. The willingness of Department and Civil Service organisations to release staff and to support them in their learning efforts is indicative of widespread support at an organisational level for the Irish language and its more extensive introduction into the public service. Anecdotally, the feedback from students is that they enjoy the courses, find them useful and bring what they learn into their day-to-day work. It is in the organisations that are on the front line of delivering public services that we see the real benefit because they can engage with the community in a much better way than they may previously have been able to.

Tá spás ann don dara babhta de cheisteanna má tá spéis ag comhaltaí. Leis sin, cuirfidh mé clabhsúr leis an mír seo den chruinniú. Gabhaim buíochas le Helen Brophy agus Noreen Fahy as a bheith linn tráthnóna. Bhí sé thar a bheith spéisiúil. Táim chun deireadh a chur leis an seisiún seo. Gabhaim buíochas leis na finnéithe as an bplé fiúntach agus tairbheach a bhí againn leo inniu. Cuirfimid an cruinniú ar fionraí le cúpla nóiméad chun deis a thabhairt dár gcéad fhinnéithe eile a suíocháin a ghlacadh.