A Chinn Comhairle, is mian liom iarraidh ar an nDáil seo glaca leis an dTuarasgabháil ó'n gCoiste ar Thuarastail agus Liuntaisí. Ní gádh dhom puinn a rá i dtaobh na rudaí atá ar an gcuntas so. Béidir gur cheart dom a rá ná fuil anso aon airgead do sna Teachtaí, ach costas.

I desire formally to move that the Dáil adopt the report of the Committee, appointed some days ago to report on salaries and allowances to Ministers, Chairman, Vice-Chairman and Deputies. The matters referring to the Officers of the Dáil were not, I think, specifically in the minds of the Deputies when this Committee was appointed, but we found them necessary to be dealt with by the Committee; otherwise they would require to be dealt with later on, and the Committee wanted to finish this work, and not to go back on any part of it. Having read the report, Mr. Speaker, I don't think it is necessary that much more should be said by me on this, but if any Deputy desires to put a question either to myself or to the Secretary of the Committee, Professor Whelehan, we will be glad to explain any point that may be raised.

I wish formally to second that this report of the Committee on Salaries and Allowances be adopted by the Dáil.

I take it these proposals are only for the present — until the new Parliament meets under the Constitution.

That is so. I should have explained that in all these matters the Committee was considering only the provisional and temporary nature of this Parliament, and have made recommendations accordingly.

I take it that Teachtaí who are both members of Dáil Eireann and the Provisional Government will be paid only in respect of one of those positions, and not in respect of both?

Quite so.

I should like to ask Deputy O'Shannon whether he is assuming that the salaries for the various positions are intended not to be exempt from Income Tax, but that the payments to Dáil Members are exempt from Income Tax.

It will be noted that as regards the President, Ministers, the Speaker, Deputy Speaker, Clerk of the Dáil, Assistant Clerk and Captain of the Guard, the report specifies salaries. These gentlemen will, I think, be required to pay Income Tax. As regards the Deputies that is not so. The Committee's recommendation is that they be allowed a sum of £30 per month towards expenses. Therefore, they would not ordinarily be subject to payment of income tax.

Has any other Deputy any question to ask?

I wish to move an amendment that no allowances be made to Teachtaí for expenses or any other purpose in this Council, and I do so for the reason that the country is in a very poor state, financially, at the present time and, in my opinion, it cannot afford to pay these enormous salaries to the Ministers and expenses to the Deputies. I am not against payment from some source or another, but I think that the source is a wrong to the Nation from which you are about to draw this money. We have representatives here of several parties. We have the Free State Party. We have the Farmers' Party. We have the Labour Party. We have a sort of Independent Party, and we have a super-Independent Party, and I think the organisation that elected these different parties should bear the expenses of the Members they send here to represent them, and I, therefore, formally move that no allowance be made towards the expenses of the Members of this Dáil. I might go a little further and say——

Is not that a direct negative?

And I do so for another reason. If any attempt is made later on to cut down these expenses and allowances we will likely have a strike, and the next thing that follows is that we will have picketing, and then the military will come out and shoot them to prevent them from picketing, and then we will have no Government. I, therefore, move a direct negative to the motion.

You can take the Deputy as speaking against the motion to accept this report.

I think he is in order in moving that the question of the Deputies' salaries be deleted from that Report, and I hope he will get a seconder in order that we get a chance of telling Mr. McGuinness off.

An amendment could be moved in the form that Recommendation No. 5 be omitted from the Report.

I will move that.

And all other references to it.

Probably Deputy McCarthy would second me now.

With this object in view I will second the motion — so as to open a debate on it. This is a democratic assembly. It is all very well for Mr. McGuinness, who is a big merchant in Longford and able to pay his expenses, to talk about deleting expenses. It is quite a different thing for Deputies who have sacrificed their business. The expenses allowed will not even clear the hotel expenses incurred by the Deputies staying in Dublin. We were all agreed that Deputies should not get salaries. But it is not fair to ask the men who are doing the work of the Government and of the people to be out of pocket. There are very few bloated capitalists here. Perhaps Mr. McGuinness is one of them who can afford to carry on, but the allowance recommended by the Committee will not clear the hotel expenses of Deputies who are staying in Dublin to carry on the business of the Irish nation. Though opposed to it, I second it, so that when the voting comes along Mr. McGuinness will be left in a minority of one.

I would just like to say that what Deputy McCarthy has stated, to my mind is absolutely correct. The people sent us here to do certain work, and they do not grudge us the allowance recommended in this document that has been proposed by Deputy Shannon, provided that we have the moral courage to get on with the work and clear up the mess.

An amendment to the motion proposed by Deputy O'Shannon is proposed by Deputy McGuinness and seconded by Deputy McCarthy. It is that Clause 5 be deleted from the Report.

The amendment was put and lost.

The motion was then put and carried.