asked the Minister for Local Government and Public Health whether, having regard to the inadequacy in existing conditions of the pensions payable to widows and orphans, he is prepared to introduce proposals for the purpose of securing a substantial increase in such payments.

The food allowances now made to recipients of widows' and orphans' pensions in urban areas are equivalent to a substantial increase in pension rates. It is not proposed to vary the existing cash rates of pensions.

Does the Parliamentary Secretary consider that the food allowances now made cover the increase in the cost of living since 1939?

Yes; I am satisfied that in fact if a widow has a number of dependent children the value of the vouchers more than represents the increase in the cost of living. A widow with five children who would be entitled to a contributory pension of 27/- gets an increase corresponding to 37 per cent.

What about a widow entitled to a non-contributory pension?

A non-contributory pensioned widow with five children would be entitled to a maximum pension of 11/-. The addition by way of food allowance is 91 per cent.

The increase in the cost of living in the three years from February, 1939, to February, 1942, is from 174, taking 100 as the base in 1914, to 237. Does the Parliamentary Secretary still say that the 37 per cent. increase to the contributory pensioner is equivalent to that increase in the cost of living?

The 91 per cent. is certainly in excess of it.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary so sure of that?

Certainly.

From 74 to 137?

What years does the increase of 37 per cent. cover? Between what two years?

I am afraid I would require notice of that.

What does the 37 per cent. increase mean then?

37 per cent. increase in value.

Between what years?

I cannot tell the Deputy that at the moment.

The answer has no meaning then.