asked the Minister for Supplies whether he is aware that it is impossible for retailers to weigh out 448 half pounds out of a 2 cwt. bag of sugar and therefore impossible to give everyone their ration of ½ lb. regularly; and whether he will direct Comhlucht Siúicre Eireann to allow 5 lb. per 2 cwt. bag of sugar to meet the weighing problem.

The question of making a special allocation of sugar to traders to offset possible losses incurred in weighing is at present under consideration.

Can the Minister give me an indication of when a decision will be taken in the matter? At present it is impossible for well-intentioned retail distributors to comply with the law, and they want to comply with the law.

The margin already allowed to traders has been sufficient to meet any losses up to the present.

What margin?

The margin allowed in September. In that month each trader was allowed a quantity of sugar in excess of the amount required to give the prescribed ration to customers.

On the first of the month a trader gets a bag containing 2 cwt. to supply 448 customers The thing cannot be done. The trader wants to give every man his quota of sugar, half a pound. I say there are not 448 half pounds in the bag. I ask you to put in the 448 half pounds and prosecute the trader if he does not hand them out to his customers.

I have said that the question of a special allocation is under consideration. Traders received a margin already sufficient to deal with any losses arising under this head.

I deny that absolutely.

A responsible organisation of traders with whom the matter has been discussed have agreed that the margin allowed already has been sufficient up to the present.

I say they are talking through their hats and I am selling sugar every day.

Will the Minister say what the margin is?

I have already explained what the margin was.

I think there is some confusion on the point. The Minister means that traders got a supply of sugar sufficient to enable them to give the quota to each person.

I said nothing of the sort. I said they got a quantity in excess of what was required to enable them to give the quota.

That is not what Deputy Dillon is referring to.

That is what I am referring to.

That is a different thing altogether.

It is the same thing.

It is not.

It is, and any person of ordinary intelligence will understand that it is.

Will the Minister say what was the amount given?

It related to the quota of the individual trader.

What percentage per cwt. was it?

The thing is a pure figment of the Minister's imagination. There is not a scintilla of truth in it.

It was not an amount per cwt. It was a percentage of the trader's quota.

It must have been made on some basis.

Certainly.

There is not a scintilla of truth in it. We are getting a two-cwt. bag for 448 customers and nobody can get a full ration, and the Minister knows that.

I know that traders received, in the month of September, a quantity of sugar expressed as a percentage of their quotas in excess of the quantity required to give the prescribed ration to their customers. I know that that quantity, if reserved by the traders for such a purpose, was sufficient to offset any loss in weighing that occurred in the meantime. I am also aware that this matter has been discussed with an organisation representative of traders who have agreed that the allowance already given should be sufficient for the purpose up to the present, but who pressed that a further allowance would be required for the future.

Can the Minister give more specific information?

I think I have given very specific information.

Will the Minister say what the name of the organisation representing traders is?

I could not. It was an organisation representative of traders.

Is the Minister aware that the practice in the retail grocery trade always was that sugar was sold as gross weight, that the bag was weighed with the sugar and that, when that was the practice, there was sufficient sugar in a two-cwt. bag to give the 224 lbs: I am told that now a new regulation has been issued whereby retail grocers are compelled to give a half lb. net weight to each customer. That is the trouble. The Minister will see that there has been a departure from a very old-established practice in the trade, and if that is the departure which has impelled the Minister to give some extra allowance to make up the short weight, I think the case could be met very easily in that way.

I am admitting that there is a loss on sugar in weighing it into small quantities. I have stated that so far as traders are concerned they have already been compensated for that loss. The matter of any margin for the future is at present under consideration.

The Minister thinks the trader got the sugar for nothing.