asked the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs the reasons why a radio programme on civil defence, which was to have been broadcast at 7.45 p.m. on Sunday, 23rd October last, was omitted by Radio Éireann.

39.

asked the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs the circumstances under which the feature on civil defence, which was to have been broadcast on Radio Éireann on 23rd October, 1960 at 7.45 p.m. was cancelled.

With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I shall reply to Questions 38 and 39 together.

The Minister has no statutory functions in regard to the omission or cancellation of a Radio Éireann programme except those contained in Section 31 of the Broadcasting Act 1960. This section was not invoked by me in connection with the programme referred to in the Question and I have therefore no responsibility in the matter. I may add however because of erroneous reports that appeared in some newspapers, that no Minister stopped this programme. I understand that Radio Éireann decided not to accept it because the two parties concerned in it, the contributor who sponsored it and the Minister for Defence and his officials who supplied the material, were not in agreement in regard to its content. This was what was known as a "package" programme, that is, it was initiated, prepared and recorded entirely outside Radio Éireann by a contributor who presented the completed tape. Until the recording was accepted by Radio Éireann it had no responsibility for the material or its presentation. As I stated, Radio Éireann did not accept it.

Is the Minister not aware that the top officials of Radio Éireann dissociated themselves from the objections of the Minister for Defence to this programme?

I have no evidence or no information on the matter now referred to by Deputy Corish. As a matter of fact, I have already indicated to the Deputy that I have no function in the matter, in so far as a decision taken on a programme by Radio Éireann is concerned.

Will the Minister confirm that the technical decision that the programme in question should not be proceeded with was made by the Acting Director of Radio Éireann, following a visit by the Minister for Defence, accompanied by officers of that Minister's Department?

I do not understand what the Deputy means by "technical decision".

The individual decision.

The decision was taken by Radio Éireann.

At the request of the Minister for Defence.

It is a matter in which I have no function to interfere. Radio Éireann did not accept the programme on the tape. They agreed in principle to allow time for the production of this programme by the contributor on the understanding that the contributor would produce a programme acceptable to Radio Éireann.

Will the Minister say on what day and at what hour Radio Éireann refused the programme that was presented by this particular contributor?

That is a separate question and I have not the information.

Indeed it is not.

It was accepted until the Minister for Defence, on a Saturday, walked into Radio Éireann and bullied his way into it.

You are getting it on the Adjournment. You cannot have it twice.

This is not the only programme that Radio Éireann refuses to accept from contributors.

Perhaps the Leader of the Opposition would answer and tell us if it is now the policy of Fine Gael to try to sabotage civil defence?

Rubbish.

Is that not the purpose of all this?

If there is any sabotage, you had your share in it.

Is it not a fact that this programme was accepted for broadcasting by Radio Éireann?

I have already stated no.

Is it not further a fact that if the Minister for Defence had not come in the manner in which he did to Radio Éireann on that Saturday morning, the programme would have been broadcast at 7.45, as arranged?

I have already stated no, that Radio Éireann did not accept the programme, and if Radio Éireann had broadcast the programme, it would have broadcast it without the knowledge that the contributor had not got the agreement of the Minister for Defence.

Does the Minister and the Government consider it desirable that programmes on Radio Éireann should be abandoned at the instance of the Minister for Defence or of any other Minister of the Government?

What the Deputy has stated now is not a fact. The Leader of the Fine Gael Party is trying to bolster up a claim made now by the producer of this programme but the Fine Gael Party were complaining about this person not so very long ago in this House as to the type of programmes——

We know where the doctoring was done, at 37 Upper Pembroke Street.

I think I am entitled——

The Minister might learn how to keep his temper.

I can keep my temper and I can tell the Fine Gael Party they were complaining to me I did not take steps to censor a programme this person produced on Radio Éireann.

May I ask the Minister to answer a simple question? I understood the Minister for Defence to tell us earlier in the evening that he attended at Radio Éireann and that subsequently this programme was abandoned by Radio Éireann.

Was not accepted. I did not say that. It was not banned.

I said "abandoned by Radio Éireann".

I did not say that. I said "not accepted".

The difference between "not accepted" and "abandoned" is so subtle as to escape me. All I am asking the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs, who is answerable to this House for the independent status of Radio Éireann, is this: does he consider it desirable that Radio Éireann, whose independence he is charged to defend, should abandon a programme consequent on the personal visit of a member of the Government?

I have indicated my answer to this House.

I shall allow one more question. I cannot take notice of every Deputy.

He has not answered my question.

May I ask the Minister, if Radio Éireann is agreeable to broadcast this unexpurgated version of the programme, is he agreeable to that?

My agreement is not needed.

The Minister wants to get the agreement of the Minister for Defence.

Who supplied the programme which was mutilated after I supplied it?

What did the Minister supply? He made a short statement.

In reply to the Leader of the Opposition, I have indicated to the House that the independence of Radio Éireann is assured by the answers I have given to the two questions that have been put to me. It was a matter for Radio Éireann and Radio Éireann decided on the issue and they alone decided on the issue.

After the visit of the Minister for Defence.

Was it a coincidence that the Minister for Defence happened to be there that morning?

It was not. He tried to slip it through in breach of the agreement and he did not get away with it.

The whole trouble is that there cannot be another view except a Fianna Fáil view.

Who flung dung?

Will Deputy Lindsay please allow the Chair to conduct the business of the House?