I move:

(1) That the duty of customs on tobacco imposed by section 20 of the Finance Act, 1932 (No. 20 of 1932), shall, as on and from the 11th day of April, 1962, be charged, levied and paid at the several rates specified in Part I of the Schedule to this Resolution in lieu of the several rates at which the said duty is now chargeable by virtue of section 14 of the Finance Act, 1961 (No. 23 of 1961).

(2) That the duty of excise on tobacco imposed by section 19 of the Finance Act, 1934 (No. 31 of 1934), shall, as on and from the 11th day of April, 1962, be charged, levied and paid at the several rates specified in Part II of the Schedule to this Resolution in lieu of the several rates at which the said duty is now chargeable by virtue of section 14 of the Finance Act, 1961.

(3) That the rebate on hard pressed tobacco mentioned in subsection (2) of section 17 of the Finance Act, 1940 (No. 14 of 1940), shall, in respect of any such tobacco sold and sent out for use within the State by any licensed manufacturer on or after the 11th day of April, 1962, be at the rate of sixteen shillings and fivepence per pound.

(4) That the rebates on unmanufactured tobacco mentioned in subsection (3) of section 20 of the Finance Act, 1932 (No. 20 of 1932), and subsection (5) of section 19 of the Finance Act, 1934 (No. 31 of 1934), shall not be payable in respect of any unmanufactured tobacco received by a licensed manufacturer of tobacco on or after the 11th day of April, 1962.

(5) That every licensed manufacturer of tobacco shall, on and after the 11th day of April, 1962, be entitled to receive a rebate as follows in respect of unmanufactured tobacco received by him upon which the duty of customs imposed by section 20 of the Finance Act, 1932, or the duty of excise imposed by section 19 of the Finance Act, 1934, has been paid:—

(6) It is hereby declared that it is expedient in the public interest that this Resolution shall have statutory effect under the provisions of the Provisional Collection of Taxes Act, 1927 (No. 7 of 1927).

SCHEDULE.

DUTIES ON TOBACCO.

PART I.

Customs.

PART II.

Excise.

Would the Minister state the existing rate of duty on an ounce of plug tobacco, an ounce of loose tobacco, a packet of 20 cigarettes of the 3/4d. variety and of the 2/10d. variety?

I have not got the figures for cigarettes. The rate of duty on all tobacco is £2 9s. 7½d. per lb. The content of 20 cigarettes and the content of an ounce of tobacco would be different. I have not got that figure with me. I can tell the Deputy later.

What is the existing duty on 20 cigarettes?

2/3d. on the packet of 20.

What is the duty on an ounce of plug tobacco and loose tobacco?

An ounce of tobacco is not the same weight as 20 cigarettes. I cannot give it at the moment.

It seems to me from the explanatory memorandum handed to us that this increase on tobacco will yield £1,780,000. The Minister is being sufficiently magnanimous as to give £1,000,000 to the social welfare group, including a miserable 2/6 to the old age pensioners, but what is to be done with the other three-quarters of a million pounds, before we vote on this Resolution?

The farmers.

What is the man who now buys two ounces of tobacco paying to the State at present?

How much, in figures?

What is loose tobacco? What is the existing rate of duty on tobacco? The Minister is avoiding answering. Surely his calculator beside him could tell him.

I should be quite clear in my own mind in regard to this Resolution—and every other Resolution that comes before the House—that its nature was not known to any member of the public prior to five minutes before the Minister began to read out his Budget statement in the House. On the question of the imposition of a tax such as we have in this Resolution—on tobacco—the Government's intention to impose such a tax should not be known to anyone——

I cannot allow the Deputy to raise the matter in this fashion.

It is very important.

It may be important but it does not arise on this Resolution. If the Deputy wishes to raise it, he will have to take another course. He may not raise it on this Resolution.

Can I get an answer to my question?

That is another matter. I cannot answer all questions. Deputy McQuillan's matter may not be raised on this Resolution.

I sought immediately after the Minister's statement——

Chair.

The Chair has no authority over the Government's decisions.

I sought to find out from the Taoiseach whether or not he is satisfied that there was no leakage of information in regard to the Budget proposals, and I have not got any answer to that. Surely I am entitled——

It may not be raised on this Resolution. I am ruling that quite definitely.

On a point of order, surely the Deputy is entitled to say that he does not propose to vote for the Resolution because the contents of it were disclosed to people not members of the House.

I did not stop the Deputy from saying that.

He may say it so.

He is trying to find excuses for stopping the old age pensioners from getting it. He wants it but he will not pay for it. Is that not the point?

The Minister had £8,000,000, if he wanted it.

I cannot allow Deputy McQuillan to raise the action or inaction of the Minister in respect of the publication or non-publication or dissemination of information on this Resolution.

You, Sir, do not know what I am going to say until I say it. May I answer the interruption by the Tánaiste which was to the effect that Deputies were attempting to prevent the old age pensioners from getting their increase by not voting for the increased duty on tobacco. I want to make it quite clear that if that information was made available to people outside the House before 4 o'clock, they are in a position——

I shall not allow the Deputy to discuss that. He will speak to the Resolution or resume his seat.

He does not mind being expelled now. He wants to be expelled on this Resolution.

He wants to avoid voting against it.

The Deputy will resume his seat or speak on the Resolution.

I presume you will allow me to speak on the Resolution.

Yes, and only on the Resolution.

I should like to make my position clear on this Resolution. Irrespective of the question of a proper increase or otherwise for the old age pensioners, I feel that it is the duty of the Government in every possible way to restrict the consumption of tobacco. So far as the Minister for Health is concerned, that job is being done through the Budget, when he should have the decency to do it through the Department of Health, in order to discourage the public from smoking, and on that basis——

Good old Fascist.

——I believe it would be wrong for me to vote against any——

I knew he would find some excuse.

I intend to vote for the Resolution increasing the price of tobacco. I make no bones about it.

There was a sigh of relief.

We knew that before the Budget came in.

Is it not possible to get an answer to my question?

Is it possible to get an answer to the question as to whether or not this information was made available——

I ruled that out and I shall not allow it to be discussed on this Resolution.

Might I ask the Taoiseach if he would say whether or not there were people outside the Dáil, or outside the immediate staff of the Minister for Finance, who had the Budget proposals available to them before they were made public by the Minister? Is that not a simple question?

You, Sir, suggested that we should adopt another course and we propose to take it, but we should like at this stage to know from the Taoiseach whether or not this information was disclosed to people other than Deputies prior to 4 o'clock.

The Deputy would like to think it was.

The Minister for Lands says it was. We know now.

I want to say that we shall vote against this Resolution. We are not depending on Deputies Sherwin, Sheridan and Leneghan.

You are quite safe now.

Only for them, you would be out on your neck. When we walked into the Division Lobby, we did not know whether they would go to the right or the left——

You were hoping.

They will go the way of Cowan and Cogan.

You remember the busted flush. You are down now to three, and you will shortly be dependent on two pairs. The Taoiseach can tell you the only hand which that beats, and when you come to a pair of twos get ready to go. We are going to vote against this Resolution.

You are quite safe.

Even Singer let you down, too.

We are going to vote against this Resolution to express our entire disapprobation of the means chosen by the Government to raise the funds necessary to improve pensions and provide the relief to farmers. It seems to us fantastic that out of a Budget of £162 million all the vaunted promises of this administration to effect economies and to save money cannot be invoked in part at least to meet the extra cost of the situation that they seek to relieve and for which they are primarily responsible. It is they who have made the old age pensioners and the farmers——

A "bob" a gallon.

Deputy Dillon is on his feet. Nothing else is relevant in the discussion except the duty on tobacco.

I thought the Government Party's equanimity would begin to prick. I notice it is cracking a little. They are responsible——

For the "bob" a gallon.

——for the conditions to which the farmers of this country have been brought. They are responsible for the conditions that brought the farmers of this country on to the roads and the streets to parade in the dilemma into which they have been forced by the Fianna Fáil Government.

Labhair as Gaeilge anois.

I sympathise with Deputy Ó Briain.

I do not want your sympathy.

Labhair as Gaeilge anois.

We have to remind the Deputy of his responsibilities even if it causes him profound dismay as it appears to do. We will vote against the Resolution because we disapprove of the general structure of this Budget. Ordinarily, our views of the general structure of the Budget would be reserved for the final tax resolution which falls to be debated tomorrow and the following day and the division on which we do not contemplate taking until after Easter. Pending our Vote on that, we propose to vote on this and the other Resolutions.

I did not intend to speak but as my name was mentioned I will defend my actions.

On Resolution No. 6.

I am supporting this Resolution and the other Resolutions because, to begin with, I decided to vote for a Government and there would be no sense in my voting against the Resolution.

You would not like to go out.

I am one of the few who has least to worry about. I accept that if we give we must get. When I voted for the Judges' increases, I went into the bar and several people called me over and asked me to have a drink. They were members of the Opposition. They said: "Do not mind us blowing our coal. We have to do it."

On a point of order. Would the House permit Deputy Sherwin to conclude and say he was invited by a Parliamentary Secretary——

I am supporting the motion because, as I said, you must get to give and I am not convinced——

What did they give you?

You can rest assured that I have not got a butt from anyone. I neither drink nor smoke. On the Resolution, I take the view that if you give, you must take. In every Budget statement, you would have the same even if the Opposition were in power. I have never yet heard of an Opposition giving three cheers for a Government Budget. It cannot be done. It is just blowing their coal because they have got to do it.

He was one of the three cheers.

At the outset, I asked the Minister a simple question. I did not get an answer to that question and I want to make it quite clear to the country, through the Minister's answer, what the people are paying in tobacco tax already and on cigarettes. We are putting on 2d. extra. We are asking the cigarette smokers of this country to pay a tax of ? on every 20 cigarettes they buy. Who are the cigarette smokers? The vast majority of them are in the lower income group. I want to hear the Minister's reply. The Minister replied to the question in so far as cigarettes are concerned but he did not reply to the question in regard to tobacco. What is the actual tax at the present time on hard pressed and loose tobacco? Before this Resolution is implemented, if it will be implemented, I want a simple answer to that question. Surely the Minister or his advisers know the answer?

The extra duty on an ounce of tobacco other than hard pressed plug is 2½d. There is no increase in hard plug.

What is the existing tax which the Minister saw fit to increase, in so far as loose tobacco and cigarettes are concerned?

They miss grandfather. When grandfather up in the Park was here, he had all the figures on his finger tips. Grandfather was the only one who had the figures.

How much Cavendish and Negrohead is manufactured in this country?

The Deputy can ask that question on——

A very small percentage. I think it is on the one per cent.

Manufactured in this country?

I want an answer to my question.

The duty on hard-pressed is 2/2d. an ounce and other pipe tobacco 10d. more.