asked the Minister for Finance if any of the loans advanced by the Shipping Finance Corporation Limited on the 31st October 1963 amounting to £2,304,450 was advanced to Irish nationals or companies the shareholders of which were Irish nationals; and, if so, how much.

I understand that no application for a loan has been received by Shipping Finance Corporation from Irish nationals or companies the shareholders of which were Irish nationals.

Does the Minister really think it is proper that he should refuse to disclose to the House loans that have been made amounting to a total of £2,304,000 to foreign interests, as he did so refuse last week, and does he think it appropriate that when this particular firm has got a grant from An Foras Tionscal of £401,000, £710,000 from voted moneys and a loan of £1,850,000, of which £400,000 has been repaid already, the additional loans that have been made as of last year and, I understand, increased this year, amounting to £2,904,000 should not be disclosed to the House and the House told about them? May I put it to the Minister that the House and the country are entitled to know whether it is good business for Shipping Finance Corporation Limited, a subsidiary of the Industrial Credit Company, to lend money to a Dutch firm and to the Liberian Government? That money has been lent to the Liberian Government by a subterfuge and the Minister should disclose the whole facts to the House and the country.

It is ordinary practice to withhold details in a matter of this kind. I should like to say to the Deputy that, in spite of Fine Gael, this firm is doing quite well.

Does the Minister suggest that it is proper for a wholly-owned subsidiary of an entirely State-owned company to lend money to a foreign Government without the House being told?

They have been told. They have been told what the company proposed to do.

And you approved the loans to the Liberian Government?

That is just putting it in a way in which it should not be put. The Deputy knows that well.

The Minister said the company told him.

Why does the Deputy take refuge in being allowed to slander a company like this in this House?

There is no question of slander. It is the Minister's responsibility and he will not face up to his responsibility.

I have faced up to it by approving of the conditions.

Then the Minister did approve the loan to the Liberian Government?

This firm is giving good employment, turning out four ships in four years.

Yes, that is all right, but why not tell the House?

Does the Deputy want to get rid of it?

I do not. I want the truth to be told and the Minister has tried to hide that they have lent the money to the Liberian Government.

Of course, the Deputy wants to shut it down.

Why try to hide it?

We are not hiding anything.

The Minister is.

Deputy O'Sullivan should go down to Cobh.

I have been there.

Fine Gael cannot bear to see this country going ahead.

The Minister ought to be straight with the people. It is not being straight to refuse these details.

The Deputy should not be crooked by talking about the Liberian Government.

The Liberian Government was given a loan for the purchase of the last ship.

Order. Question No. 3.