asked the Minister for Local Government if there are proposals before his Department from Dublin Corporation regarding the increase in rent for corporation tenants.

The reply is no.

Have the corporation not replied to the Minister's circular urging them to increase the rents?

We do not normally get replies to circular letters.

They are just orders.

No, they are usually guides, advice and exhortations.

You do it, or you get the sack.

At least the Minister has acknowledged urging the City Manager to increase rents which he had not done before.

The Minister has not acknowledged anything, has no intention of doing so and will not do so.

Does that mean the new Minister for Local Government?

Nor will the Minister be quoted out of context.

Can the Minister say if a circular did go to the corporation regarding an increase in rents?

A general circular went out on the 28th May of which every Deputy must be fully aware.

That went to all local authorities?

Sure.

Urging an increase in rents?

Urging rationalisation of rents so that more people can be housed. Do not forget that.

Can the Minister tell us if the local authorities have taken any action in respect of the contents of the circular?

In saying no to the question, I fully answered it, but in deference to the Chairman of the Housing Committee——

That must have been a mirage the Minister met when he met the tenants.

There is only one mirage.

The Minister to Pakistan is very silent. Ayub Khan has nothing to contribute.

No friend of yours either.

I am never silent when the cause is righteous.

It is rather surprising that this circular which was sent to local authorities on this important matter of rents has not been supplied to Members of this House who are not privileged to be members of country councils. Would the Minister not have it supplied, for information, to the Members of this House?

I am checking what the implications of that are not only as to the sending of this particular circular but also the implication that every circular that goes from every Department to every institution should likewise be given to Deputies. I wonder whether or not this would be a practice the House would welcome.

This is a rather special request.

I am sure we could get Deputy O'Leary a copy of it, if he wishes.

Would the Minister tell us the number of times a circular issued from his Department encouraging city and county managers to impose increases in the rents of the tenants?

That is a separate matter.

Deputy Larkin is not ignorant of the terms of the circular, though he may portray here that he is totally so. He should surely realise that a suggestion that rents should be looked at and rationalised is not paraphrased properly as he paraphrased it when he says it is an order to increase rents. In fact, in this circular of which I have not got a copy at the moment, I remember distinctly there was an exhortation and, in fact, practically a direction that rents must be brought down in order to house those who cannot pay.

Hear, hear.

Is that not so?

Will the Minister tell us whether or not he indicated that, in his view, the rents of corporation dwellings should be equated to the full economic rent of such dwellings at current costs, even though those dwellings were built 20, 30 or 40 years ago?

Does the House realise, I wonder, that Deputy Larkin is the Chairman of Dublin Corporation Housing Committee and that he obviously would have got a copy of this circular or would have had it available to him since 28th May if he had the interest in it that he appears now to have generated——

Hear, hear.

Question No. 36.

——and that if he did read it, he should understand it and not be coining phrases in an effort to blame me or the Minister for Local Government for putting up the rents of the people in his housing estate, because he will not get away with that so far as the people of the estate are concerned. I would further say that I still challenge the Chairman of the Housing Committee and every other member of that Committee to look at the circular and bring down rents——

Hear, hear.

——which people cannot afford to pay.

I cannot allow this to go on for ever.

Will the Minister admit that he refused to give assistance to local authorities and to private house purchasers in the last two or three years?

This is pure argument.

The Deputy knows that what he says is not accurate.

The Labour Party's campaign is responsible now for the Minister's back pedalling.

They are jumping on the bandwagon.

It got too hot for Deputy Dowling.

Is the Minister aware that Deputy Cluskey is trying to cod the people?

Question No. 36.

I was not canvassing on both sides, like you were.

The lonely graves of Pakistan: God help us all.

36.

asked the Minister for Local Government the number of tenants of Clonmel Corporation whose rents have been increased, and the amount of the increase in each case; the number of tenants whose rents have been reduced, and the amount in each case; the number of tenants who were exempted from increase in rents and whose rent remains unchanged; and the estimated revenue for one year to be derived from these changes in rents in Clonmel.

I understand that, following the recent review of rents of houses let on fixed rents by Clonmel Corporation, 462 tenants have had their rents increased, 149 have had their rents reduced, and the rents of 16 tenants are unchanged. I have not got detailed information as to the amounts of the increases or reductions in rent in individual cases, but the maximum proportion of income taken in rent under the scheme will not in any case exceed a fraction of about one-seventh. The increase in the corporation's rental income as a result of the review is estimated by the corporation at £3,000. The corporation incurred a loss of £11,000 on their housing account in 1965-66, after taking credit for the State subsidy.