asked the Minister for Finance whether the third economic programme is in course of preparation; and, if so, when he expects publication.

The terminal date of the Second Programme for Economic Expansion is the end of the year 1970, so that it has still nearly four years to run. Work on the Third Programme will commence in ample time to ensure publication before the end of 1970. As Deputies are aware, the Second Programme is at present being reviewed to assess what changes may be called for in the light of performance to date and expectations of future developments.

Can the Minister offer any hope, at this stage of preparation, that this third act of the economic programme will see the declaration of real objectives by the Government in the matter of economic planning and that we shall not be straining semantics by suggesting that the Government have been involved in planning up to this stage?

Surely that is a separate question?

With all due respects, I think it arises out of the question.

This Government was the first to commit itself to the concept of planning our economic development, and we hope to continue that planning on the basis of what is realistic and what is attainable.

The Minister's planning is, in fact, a series of pious exhortations without any real planning behind them——

An entirely separate matter.

——and the objectives which it was sought to fulfil in the Second Programme for Economic Expansion have not been fulfilled.

Could the Minister give any reason why all the Ministers have now ceased talking about the Second Programme and have now commenced talking about a third?

That is an entirely different matter.

Is there any significance in that?

Of course, there is: they are ashamed.

All the responsible Ministers of the Government——

Who are they?

They are not many.

How many of them are there?

All the Ministers of the Government who are concerned——

There are not many of them either.

——are engaged busily in this review of the Second Programme about which I have been speaking.