asked the Minister for Education what steps he now proposes to take to provide a conciliation scheme for secondary teachers.

The tribunal on teachers' salaries recommended a common scheme of conciliation and arbitration for all teachers. A draft common scheme will be issued at an early date for consideration by all parties concerned, including the secondary teachers.

Is the Minister aware that the secondary teachers have rejected these proposals and is there now available to them the conciliation machinery granted to them in 1951?

At the moment we are preparing a common scheme of conciliation and arbitration for all teachers. This was one of the many recommendations in the report in regard to teachers' salaries. In that context I feel that the secondary teachers, as well as all the other teachers, will have ample scope for the promotion of their particular points of view.

Does this mean that the Minister has allowed the present system of conciliation to go into abeyance? My information is that they submitted a claim in pursuance of that last September and there should have been a counterclaim in from the Minister's Department within 28 days but nothing has happened. Before the present scheme of conciliation is allowed to fall into abeyance or to be discontinued, there should be six months notice on either side. Has this happened?

The Deputy is being a bit premature. We have drafted a common scheme which will soon be ready.

I am asking about the old conciliation scheme which was available to the Association of Secondary Teachers. Why is that not working?

The present schemes of conciliation and arbitration will become superfluous in the context of having a common scheme of conciliation and arbitration for all. We hope to have this out within the next few weeks. The Deputy can argue whether this common system is adequate or not.

Why is the present scheme not being allowed to operate, especially in view of the fact that the Minister's predecessor told a delegation of secondary teachers that if they were not satisfied with the recent proposals, which they have now rejected, they could always go back to their own machinery of conciliation and arbitration?

The Deputy should not be anticipating things.

I am dealing with the scheme that is there.

We shall have the proposed draft scheme ready shortly, inside the next few weeks, to cover all the teaching profession. Let us wait and see what happens on foot of that.

Does that mean that the new draft scheme will give further consideration to this common basic salary business which they have rejected? They do not object to the scheme in principle but to the figures proposed.

That is another day's work.

That is what I am inquiring about.

The question relates specifically to the whole business of the working of the conciliation and arbitration scheme, and on that aspect the report recommends that there should be a conciliation and arbitration scheme to cover all the teaching profession. We are preparing a scheme in that connection, and we hope to have it very shortly.

Will the Minister agree with me that he is attempting to do something very great, too fast, and too cheaply, especially having regard to the fact that the Burnham Council in England and the Black Council in Scotland took five years?

There is no reason why we should take so long.

Does the Minister not also agree that small salaries, particularly to the secondary teachers, may well negative efficiency which should be the normal expectation of the investment in education? Generosity should be the basis of any scheme.

Generosity must be the basis of all schemes, within the realms of possibility.

If the Minister is not prepared to treat this seriously, especially having regard to the statement of the secondary teachers and the statement of the joint managerial bodies, either through lack of experience or the application of common sense, he will create a confrontation of Church and State in this matter. This is far more serious than he seems to realise.

I am well aware of all the Deputy is saying, but he ought not to fish in those waters.

I am prepared to fish in any water in which there is fish.