andMr. Clinton asked the Minister for Education the actual percentage of the total cost paid by his Department towards the cost of books in vocational schools supplied under the free book scheme.

My Department has no figures available to it which would indicate the total cost per year to vocational school pupils of their books and accessories. Grants paid by the Department to Vocational Education Committees towards the provision of free books and accessories amounted to £106,459 in the financial year ended 31st March, 1970.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that the chief executive officer in County Dublin has stated in writing that the amount of money received by him for this purpose is only 50 per cent of the cost, that on that account he cannot subscribe any more, and that there are many complaints from the parents in a number of these vocational schools because of this?

I am not so aware, but I should remind the Deputy, if I might interpret his question, that this is not a scheme of free books. It is a grant towards the provision of books and necessary equipment in necessitous cases. It is not meant to be an all-embracing scheme.

Surely the Parliamentary Secretary is aware that this was one of the biggest planks in the last election, free books? When does the Parliamentary Secretary propose to make the second 50 per cent available?

There was never any such suggestion.

The question asked for the percentage. Is that available for the Twenty-six Counties?

I am not in a position to state the percentage. The Department are not aware of the total cost of the books. They can only give the figures for the actual cost of the grants given by the Department to various authorities.

If the Donegal Vocational Education Committee submit a claim to the Department of Education the Department are not in a position to know the amount the committee have claimed or the amount of grant they have given?

The Department would know the amount they have given but it would not be relevant. It is of no consequence to the Department what percentage of the pupils are actually getting books. We are only concerned with necessitous pupils.

Can the Parliamentary Secretary say how the size of the grant was arrived at?

I can indeed. It may vary in accordance with the needs of each individual pupil but on average it can be reckoned at about £8 for the first year of the intermediate certificate course and £4 for each subsequent year of that course, and at £10 for the first year of the leaving certificate course and £5 for any subsequent years.

Will the Parliamentary Secretary not agree that without difficulty he can calculate what proportion of children are getting free books? Could he then answer the question?

I am not aware of the total expenditure of people who are not in the scheme on the books and accessories which they have. I am not satisfied that this would be a worthwhile survey. Many pupils would provide accessories of their own.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that in one particular school children who would normally qualify are only getting 50 per cent of the grant?

This is a matter in each case for the headmaster, then for the principal and then for the vocational education committee.

But the headmaster says that he cannot give it because he has not got it.

Question No. 24. The Minister for Justice. I have allowed six supplementary questions on this question.

May I ask the Parliamentary Secretary if he is aware that the scheme as planned by the Donegal Vocational Education Committee is that the students must pay the cost of the books to the headmaster before they get the books and then the money is refunded? Students who qualify pay the money and the headmaster makes the claim through the CEO. In view of this, is the Parliamentary Secretary not in a position to say the percentage paid to each vocational education committee?

The Deputy will appreciate that the Department will not know in advance the number of pupils who require these books. It is only——

Of course, they would, by the number of medical cards——

Medical cards do not arise in this case.

Question No. 24.