asked the Minister for Education (a) what steps are being taken by his Department to recruit qualified persons to correct the scripts in this year's leaving certificate examination; and (b) what in the view of his Department constitutes adequate qualification for this task; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

39.

asked the Minister for Education the qualifications of the personnel being recruited to mark the leaving and intermediate certificate examination papers.

With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 38 and 39 together.

An advertisement appeared in the daily newspapers on Friday last inviting applications from persons who are prepared to act as assistant examiners for this year's leaving certificate examination.

The academic qualification for an assistant examiner is that he should have taken the subject which he is to examine at university degree level or possess an equivalent qualification in the subject.

Arising from the Minister's reply, and not intending any disrespect to any member of the teaching profession at any level, may I ask him if he really believes that people will come forward in response to an advertisement inserted last Friday who are competently qualified to mark the examination papers not having studied the course in question? Further, does he believe that this is an adequate way of providing qualified persons to examine the papers of those children who are at present sitting for the leaving certificate examination?

Yes, I am satisfied that the examiners will be properly qualified.

On what basis?

I can assure the Deputy that the papers will be marked by properly qualified people.

A liberal mind.

What is more important, I assure the students that their papers will be marked by properly qualified people.

Is the Minister not aware that there is a great deal of disquiet among students and parents in respect of this examination in so far as they do not consider that their papers will be marked by persons who are appropriately qualified to do so and that, as a result, their certificates will be devalued? Further, is the Minister aware that the general attitude of the vocational teachers in particular is that they are not anxious to undertake further examining over and above that to which they have already committed themselves in respect of subjects which they themselves teach?

What I am aware of is that these papers will be marked by persons who are properly qualified to do so. Surely the Deputy is aware that the two essential requirements in the case of an assistant examiner is that, firstly, he should know his subject and, secondly, he be given a sufficiently detailed marking scheme by the supervising examiner.

Has the Minister been in touch with parents and schoolchildren since this storm has blown up? Does he not realise and appreciate the worry and anxiety that is being caused to these people because of the differences between the Department and the teaching profession?

Surely the Deputy cannot put all the blame on me for the differences that exist among the various teaching groups and with the Department? I am doing my duty in ensuring that these papers will be marked by properly qualified people. As I said previously in the House I regret the ASTI should have issued the directive to their members not to mark the papers but I want again to assure all those concerned with examinations that the papers will be properly marked.

May I ask your permission for the second time in a week, in view of the pressing nature of this crisis and the unsatisfactory nature of the Minister's reply, to raise this matter on the Adjournment?

The Chair will communicate with Deputy Thornley.

Would the Minister accept it is the concern of Deputies on all sides of the House, whatever disputes may exist between the different teachers' organisations, that the boys and girls doing those examinations should not suffer and should not be made a football in this arena?

I certainly agree that the children should not be made a football. This was one of the reasons why I said in the House last week that at that particular stage the best contribution anybody could make towards this matter was to be silent on it for the reason that the children at that time were doing the examinations and that I felt it was absolutely wrong that anybody should have raised the matter in the manner in which it was raised and in doing so disturb the children while they were doing the examinations.

Has the Minister made any further approaches to the ASTI in the past week bearing in mind the rather disturbing position the ASTI have placed themselves in in relation to their directive? I will say no more than that. Would the Minister perhaps reopen the matter with the ASTI and restate his views to them?

As I explained previously I had discussions on the day prior to their making this decision. I explained my reasons for issuing the circular and I explained that it was not possible to withdraw that circular without doing serious damage to another part of the educational system. They subsequently issued the statement saying they were withdrawing from marking the papers unless this circular was withdrawn, so I do not see what more I could do in relation to this matter.

If the Minister had adhered to the agreement of March 1969 we would have a great deal more satisfaction in the teaching profession.