asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce if his attention has been drawn to statements (details supplied) made at a Dublin conference on marine resources that a mineral belt stretching across the country from Navan to Galway may well extend into the sea and that Ireland was too openhanded with its sea resources; and if he will indicate (a) the number of prospecting licences granted for sea areas and (b) what specific information is available on the existence of minerals or oil deposits under Irish waters.

38.

asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce whether any decision has been reached in connection with a general plan of exploration and development of offshore deposits of natural gas, petroleum or minerals; and the result of any consideration by this Department in the matter.

39.

asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce the companies which have expressed an interest in conducting offshore exploration for natural gas and oil; the names of the companies operating at present; and the terms on which licences to operate are granted.

40.

asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce whether consideration has been given to the exploitation of the western continental shelf for mineral deposits; and the results of such consideration.

41.

asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce if, with a view to ascertaining whether any oil or natural gas is to be found under the continental shelf under the control of this country, the necessary steps will be taken to have exploration work carried out there.

With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 37 to 41 together.

Under the Continental Shelf Act, 1968, the Government has designated large areas of continental shelf as areas within which the rights of the State with regard to exploration and exploitation of natural resources of the shelf may be exercised.

About one-quarter of these designated areas, including two areas off the western coast, is held at present by Marathon Petroleum Ireland Limited under an exclusive petroleum exploration licence in accordance with the 1959 Oil Exploration Agreement, as amended. This company also holds two petroleum leases, within the exclusive area held by it off the south coast. Details of these facilities are given in my half-yearly reports and in the Oil Exploration Agreement, 1959, as amended in 1969, all of which were laid before the Oireachtas. For the remainder of the designated areas, I propose to grant initially non-exclusive petroleum prospecting licences allowing each licensee to carry out general exploration in the entire designated areas excluding the areas held under exclusive licence. When sufficient information on the potential of the shelf area is available from exploration under the non-exclusive licences, I will invite applications for exclusive exploration licences permitting detailed investigation of smaller areas. If commercial deposits are discovered I will grant petroleum leases for their exploitation. No facilities other than those granted to Marathon have yet been issued but I have published my intention of granting non-exclusive licences to 14 companies.

As the information requested about these companies is in the form of a tabular statement, I propose, with your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, to circulate it in the Official Report.

These non-exclusive licences will be valid for two years and will be subject to application fees of £10, consideration fees of £100 and annual rental of £500. The licensees will be obliged to give me full details of the results of their exploration. The terms of exclusive exploration licences and petroleum leases to be granted in the future to parties other than Marathon have not yet been fixed and will not be decided until more information on the potential of our shelf area is available.

I have seen the statements referred to by Deputy Donegan. I understand that the statement regarding the mineral belt was taken out of its proper context and might give the wrong impression regarding the possibilities of developing and exploiting any metalliferous deposits which may exist in our continental shelf. The speaker at the conference suggested that the onshore metalliferous mining province might extend westwards under the sea into the continental shelf but he also indicated that the technology to develop and exploit offshore subsurface deposits, involving the opening of mine shafts on the sea floor, has not yet been developed.

I do not know what the second statement referred to is meant to convey. The term "sea resources" covers resources other than minerals. In so far as offshore mineral resources are concerned, I can assure the Deputy that we are not too openhanded in granting facilities to explore and exploit these resources. The exploration of our offshore areas is only getting under way and there is, therefore, very little specific information available at this stage in regard to the mineral resources of the area.

Following is the tabular statement:

Companies which have been offered non-exclusive Petroleum Prospecting Licences.

Is it the Minister's intention to demand commensurate royalties on petroleum which is taken from under the sea? Has he mentioned the question of royalties to the people who have been given the prospecting licences? Is it his intention to behave as he did in the case of Tara mines, in other words, and give mining licences to the people who spend money on prospecting, providing arrangements for royalties were satisfactory and provided he was satisfied that they would exploit our mineral and oil resources under the sea to the fullest so that the amount of royalties would be valuable?

This is my general intention. As I stated in my reply, the terms of granting exclusive exploration licences and petroleum leases have not been decided upon. I am allergic to decisions until results are known. While it would appear equitable and proper that the people who originally spend the money on prospecting would appear to be most entitled to seek leases, I would not like to positively commit myself in that regard. From the point of view of equity it would appear to be the proper thing to do and having gone that far it would appear that the Deputy has achieved his object in the Minister's committal by way of reply to that question.

Pray God the Minister may become a Sheik of Araby with a harem but when the Minister is fixing the royalties on petroleum and oil will he remember the scarcity of oil in the world today, the cost of bringing it so far and the fact that the Egyptians have demanded extremely enhanced royalties in the recent past? Will the Minister be a hard-headed boy when he comes down to bargaining?

It will be taken by way of taxation from the motorist anyway.

I could not care less, if the royalties are big enough, whether they are called royalties or tax. I want to see this State get its full share from the minerals and oil that we own.

I completely agree with the Deputy. The experience I have obtained in the intervening two or three years will help me a great deal.

Notwithstanding his retrospective assurances——

My assurances are ones that have already been stood over.

——would the Minister not accept that the agreement reached between the Government and Marathon in relation to the south east continental shelf, an agreement which was tabled in the library of this House under considerable pressure, is of such a wide and exclusive nature to that company that in the light of recent events it is more worthy of a full scale review by the Government? Furthermore, would the Minister accept that there is a need, not merely for Government surveillance in granting licences, but for up-dated legislation in relation to the general resources of the continental shelf in view of what has transpired in the past two years?

I do not think there is any actual necessity for the up-dating of legislation. The situation is that the Minister can determine the amount of royalties in relation to any fresh petroleum leases which he proposes to negotiate. I should like to reiterate my determination to stand over at all stages any agreements which the Government have already entered into. It would be very wrong for me to give the impression, when speaking on behalf of the Government, that I would be inclined to change any agreements or alter any agreement which has been entered into.

Would the Minister not agree that we are trying to churn the milk before it has left the separator?

The churning has just started.

Will the Minister agree that loose talk in this House can be very detrimental generally to the future prospects of mineral exploration, whether on land or under the continental shelf? Will he further agree that any exploration of this kind is regarded by people engaged in this work as what they call the "long shot" where millions of pounds of money can go down the drain? Is the Minister prepared to bring to the special attention of these people that the west of Ireland in particular is an area where a first concentration of this great effort should be engaged?

As far as the assurances and the question of loose talk are concerned, I could not agree more with the Deputy. Many of these prospectors think very much like the overall population of the west of Ireland in relation to looking to the Fianna Fáil Government. They feel they are on to a bonanza anyway and they are likely to continue.

Question No. 42.

May I ask——

Question No. 42. We cannot stay on these questions all evening.

It is a rather important question.

All questions are important. Every question on the Order Paper is important.

Would the Minister not accept——

I have called question No. 42.

In view of the Minister's reply may I raise the matter on the Adjournment?

What matter?

The subject matter of the question.

He was not in on time. He does not know I took five questions together.

Which question?

The question raised by Deputy Donegan.

No. 37.

No. 41. I am not that bad.

No. 37 is the one I asked.

He does not know.

If the Deputy wishes to raise it on the Adjournment the Chair has no objection but the Deputy will have to inform the Chair which question.

No. 41. My apologies, a Cheann Comhairle.

That is Deputy O'Hara's question then?

Yes. There is no objection. There is nothing in Standing Orders against doing that.

I did not say there was any objection.

I have no objection.

The Deputy did not know which question.