asked the Minister for Finance the nature of the agreement entered into between Taiscí Stáit Teoranta and the directors of Ballingarry Collieries, Limited, County Tipperary; and when full production will commence.

29.

asked the Minister for Finance when and on what basis it is intended to honour all RD cheques issued by Ballingarry Collieries, Limited.

With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 28 and 29 together.

Arrangements for a Taiscí Stáit loan to Ballingarry collieries are well advanced but a formal loan agreement has not yet been concluded. The conditions attaching to the loan offer are confidential and it would be a breach of commercial secrecy to disclose any particulars in this regard. The Deputy may take it, however, that provision is being made that all RD wages cheques will be honoured in full on the conclusion of the loan agreement. I cannot say precisely when the proposed loan agreement will be concluded but I expect that the necessary arrangements will be completed within the next few weeks and that the collieries will resume production very soon afterwards.

Would the Minister agree now that there is, or is about to be, very considerable State involvement in the collieries and would it not be desirable to introduce with that a guarantee for the future of the collieries? Would the Minister like to comment on future aspects of the matter?

The object of the investment proposed by the State is to ensure the continued operation of the collieries and I think I indicated in reply to another parliamentary question recently that a survey indicated that there are substantial resources of coal so that, as far as these resources are concerned, there is no reason why the collieries cannot carry on for a very long period. However, I am not prepared at this stage to give an absolute, cast-iron guarantee for the continued operation of the collieries for ever. I believe the arrangements being made will be satisfactory but I should like to see them in operation before being more specific in regard to the long-term future of the collieries. Having said that, I want to make it clear that I have no reason to believe that the long-term future of the collieries will not be quite secure.

Would the Minister confirm that all creditors are being paid 20s in the £1.

No. I did not say that. I am not sure what the Minister for Industry and Commerce said. The RD wage cheques are being met in full as are certain other debts. A composition with the remaining creditors has been agreed with them and a court order is expected to be made confirming that agreement.

What percentage is being paid on non-wage claims?

The composition with the creditors is for payment of 26p in the £1, payable over four years.

Is the Minister not aware that in a categoric statement in the House the Minister for Industry and Commerce stated that all RD cheques would be honoured to the full extent of 20s in the £1 and that he was so reported in the news media and in the daily papers on the following day and that the Official Report in this regard was, in fact, altered?

I am not so aware.

I am.

Surely the Minister is aware of this because, in fact, he was present when the Minister for Industry and Commerce gave this global assurance? In fact, on that occasion he was rather shocked, if I recall correctly, but he made no effort to contradict the Minister for Industry and Commerce. I was present in the House that day. Could the Minister indicate the amount of the loan now being provided by Taiscí Stáit and an indication of any possible prospect of improvement beyond 26p in the £ to RD creditors other than wage creditors, over four years, which is a very low composition?

I gave this information to the House last week. The loan offer is £168,000, including a sum of, I think, £83,000 in respect of the RD wage cheques. I should like to make it clear that the State has no responsibility for all the trading debts of this company, nor is the State accepting such responsibility. The composition which has been arrived at, and approved of by the creditors, is the best available in the circumstances.

I am calling question No. 30.

Can the Minister for Finance affirm or contradict the statements in which it is suggested here that he has misled the House by saying that he did not know this undertaking had been given by the Minister for Industry and Commerce?

And expressed visible surprise.

I have not said any such thing as suggested by Deputy Browne, nor has any one up to now suggested that I was misleading the House. If Deputy Browne is now suggesting this, all I can say is that we are getting tired of these allegations.

(Cavan): Are wages a preferential payment?

I am calling question No. 30.

On a point of order, reference has been made in the House to a discrepancy in the statements of two Ministers. We are simply asking for clarification of this discrepancy and both Ministers are present. It can be cleared up by the Minister standing over the statement attributed to him in the press or that attributed to him in the Official Report.

Otherwise there will be low standards in high places.

Was the Official Report altered? Has the Taoiseach anything to say? There is a conflict between two Ministers on a vital matter affecting Ballingarry collieries.

There is no conflict.

Who is telling the truth about Ballingarry? The two Ministers and the Taoiseach are here. Who is telling the truth?

I am calling Question No. 30.

The Chair is protecting the Government again.

There is no question of the Chair protecting the Government. That is not a point of order. I have already called Question No. 30.

We should have the truth. Has the Official Record been changed?

It has been suggested that the Minister is telling a lie. Must that statement be withdrawn?

We have had tribunals on Ministers telling lies. We just want a simple answer.