asked the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries if present grants are to be phased out as stated recently (details supplied); and if he agrees that these grants should be retained in certain conditions and especially for small farmers and in problem areas.

Grants under existing schemes will be phased out and replaced by a new scheme of grants or low interest loans. These new forms of State aid will be available to small farmers in all areas. Large numbers of them will, of course, also qualify for special aids under the scheme for mountain and less-favoured areas which will be introduced in due course to give effect to the EEC Directive relating to such areas.

Is it envisaged that under the new order many of the farms held to be small farms are so small that farmers may not be so regarded for the purposes of these new systems of grants and loans? They will not be regarded as farms at all. They will be too small to be economic. They will be regarded as non-viable.

They will still be regarded as transitional farmers and will get the aids available to them. I do not think the scheme would extend down to a one-acre plot, but very small farmers will come in under this scheme. I would be surprised and disappointed if they did not.

I am asking the Minister to bear in mind this particular aspect, because my fear is, from what I have read, that there will be quite a large number of farmers who will be regarded as having small, non-viable farms and the small farmers will be phased out.

If the Deputy has a test case at any time I would be glad to hear about it.

If the Minister phases out the farms it will then be too late. If the scheme we have is phased out and replaced by another system it will be then too late.

There will be no farm to which nothing will be available. There will be no farmer who will not get grant aid.

That is a double negative.

Arising out of the Minister's reply and arising out of my fear, which is identical to that of Deputy Blaney, is the Minister precluded from giving grants to categories of small farmers? Will the Minister be at liberty to introduce his own system of grants for such categories?

I have said that I am not. That is my present knowledge. I am not precluded from giving them grants under the EEC schemes. All of them come in under them.

That is not quite the answer to my question.

I cannot introduce new aids.