asked the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries if he has any proposal to increase the grants payable under the beef cattle incentive scheme.

15.

asked the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries if, in view of the depressed state of the cattle trade and the fact that some EEC countries seem to make regulations contrary to CAP, he will reconsider the position of the beef cattle incentive scheme and increase the available grants.

With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 14 and 15 together.

I do not propose to increase the rates of grant at present payable under the beef cattle incentive scheme.

Can the Minister say why this is so? He knows the position of the farmers, of the great losses they must bear. What effort will the Minister make when he meets his European counterparts to have this little concession increased?

Is the Deputy suggesting that a sum of £10,500,000 is a little concession for the beef incentive-scheme?

Three years ago a man with, say, 20 cows, would have been receiving about £340. The amount will be the same today but, of course the Minister is not in the least concerned with farmers in that category.

The industry is receiving £10,500,000.

The Minister is talking about a global figure. He knows what is meant by our asking for the figure for the individual increase.

I said "No".

Would the Minister get out of the way before all the small farmers have to leave the land?

Can the Deputy indicate where, in the EEC, there are better incentives?

There are no incentives here. The Minister is trying to blow off steam.

Will Deputy Meaney please allow questions to continue?

Is the Minister's Parliamentary Secretary supporting him in the small amount payable under this scheme? The Parliamentary Secretary is the greatest bluffer ever to come into this House. Let him stand up and be counted.

I have called Deputy Gibbons.

May I ask if there is any order at all in this House. What did Fianna Fáil do to help the farmers when they were sitting on the streets outside this building?

The Chair is doing his best to have order. I have called Deputy Gibbons. If Deputy Meaney persists in interrupting I shall have to ask him to leave the House. He has been called to order repeatedly.

Despite Deputy O'Sullivan's age, he has not been here very long.

Is this a Cork row?

The farmers know what the people opposite did for them.

Deputy Gibbons.

Would the Minister not accept that the rate of increase in the national herd which has been at a very satisfactory level is declining now and that the breeding herds that were being established are being dispersed? The reason for this is that the profit element has gone.

Can we avoid reasons?

Would the Minister reconsider the suggestion contained in Deputy Meaney's question and grant some increase in the livestock incentive scheme because we must maintain the herd expansion rate?

Perhaps I should remind Deputy Gibbons that he was beginning to phase out this scheme before I came to office?

I am surprised at the Minister saying that.

Overall, the amount of the grant has increased substantially. As I have said, it is now £10,500,000.

the Minister is wrong again.

Let us have the reply to Question No. 16.