asked the Minister for Education if he is aware of the grave dissatisfaction among parents in County Kerry concerning the operation of the transport scheme to primary schools in the county; and if he will give a broad outline of the nature of complaints received in his Department during the past six months from parents, teachers and public representatives on the matter.

I am not aware that there is grave dissatisfaction among parents in County Kerry or in any other part of the country which enjoys the benefits of free school transport. There have been representations on behalf of parents in County Kerry similar to those which come from other areas. These mainly relate to: (a) pupils who are ineligible for free transport under the conditions of the scheme; (b) those for whom a service is not available because they live in a district in which there are not sufficient eligible children to support a service; (c) those who wish to have transport to a school other than the school to which they are entitled to be brought, and (d) those for whom a service exists but wish to have it brought nearer their homes.

Is the Minister aware that in Kerry families are being divided by the Minister for Education in so far as pupils attending junior classes are being deprived of free public transport to the schools to which their senior brothers and sisters are going and they are being asked to attend other schools?

Does the Deputy's question relate to primary or secondary schools?

Strictly primary.

I am not aware of the particular problem, but it would come within one of the categories I have mentioned. There is a great difficulty here. This scheme was introduced, with due respect, in great haste originally without adequate study. We have inherited a vast number of individual problems. It would be very difficult to resolve these in a manner which gives maximum advantage but which does not in one area create a precedent which in another area would create an impossible problem to resolve. It is a matter to which the Minister has given a lot of attention, and bit by bit the problems are being sorted out.

Which bit has been resolved so far?

Hundreds of problems in individual cases throughout the country.

Is the Minister aware that in Kerry, and I am sure in other counties, this scheme was working smoothly and effectively until last July when certain rules and regulations were changed, and it was never made clear to the teachers or the parents——

The Deputy is making a statement.

Would the Minister say who is responsible for deciding to which school a child should go to get free transport? Is it the school manager, CIE, the officials of his Department or the Parliamentary Secretary in charge of school transport?

I am not so aware, is the answer to the first part of the question, and it is a separate question, is the answer to the second part.

Is the Minister aware that a school transport service was removed early this week just because the parents in a particular district in Kerry expressed dissatisfaction with the scheme, and that the Department of Education want children from this area to go to a school six miles away whereas there is a transport service to a school 2½ miles away?

The Deputy is being specific.

The Deputy cannot seriously expect me to deal with a specific case out of thousands throughout the country. If the Deputy puts down a question the Minister will reply to it.

Would the Minister say why the Parliamentary Secretary, who is in charge of school transport, is not available to answer this question?

The Parliamentary Secretary is attending a meeting in Brussels within the EEC framework.

I hope he does a better job there than he did here last week.

Could I have this question adjourned?

He did not ask that question yet.

The Deputy may put that question down.

Would the Minister not agree that the second category should be wiped out and that the Department should strain every nerve to do so? Where the Minister has stated that enough children in the area are not available—which is no fault of the children—for the provision of transport, surely minibuses can be provided in this category.

That is a separate question.

No. It arises out of the Minister's reply. He refers to category (b) where there are not enough children in an area for the provision of transport. Surely a smaller vehicle can be provided to deal with people like that who have the right as citizens to free transport?

I agree that where this can be done it should be done and, in fact, it is happening in certain cases. The question we are coming to is one where a solution is being examined but I cannot say that one could set out to eliminate the category—

It should be the objective.

I do not think it should be the objective that where there is even one child a special service must be put on. Obviously, there is a limit to the cost that can be incurred in relation to individual cases. Certainly, the aim should be and is to refine the service as much as possible and where a smaller vehicle may enable the job to be done in certain cases, travelling on a road which might be impassable to a bus, this solution is being adopted wherever practicable.

In view of the grave dissatisfaction being expressed by the parents in Kerry about what is happening in relation to transport to Faha national school, would the Minister——

The Deputy will have to put down a specific question. The Deputy has named a school.

May I ask a final supplementary question? Deputy O'Leary has raised a matter which has caused a great deal of agitation in Kerry. The Minister should be aware of the problem that existed when he was coming in here——

We cannot have a discussion at Question Time.

The question put to me was a general question relating to the broad outline of the nature of complaints and it is not a question under which I could be expected to answer individual complaints about individual schools throughout Kerry.

Is the Minister aware that transport vehicles have been withdrawn?

I am not so aware.

The Minister has shown little interest in the problem.

There are several reasons why I might not be aware of something and one is that it might not be true.

Would the Minister ask the Minister for Education to send an inspector to hold an inquiry and meet the teachers and the parents in Kerry?

No, Sir.

85.

asked the Minister for Education if school transport will be provided for children (names and details supplied) attending Clonlisk national school, County Offaly.

I would refer the Deputy to the reply given on the 15th November last to his previous question on this matter. The number of eligible children required to warrant the establishment of a service is still not available.

Is the Minister aware that I have sent in a list of the names, addresses and ages of 13 eligible children in this area who are entitled to free school transport?

The Deputy has given a list of names, 12, I understood, although there is a 13th who comes within the category, but of these, two are eligible for transport but live nearer to another school; one is eligible for transport but lives south-east of the school in a direction completely away from the collection area for the remainder and another is not eligible for free transport being only 1.5 miles from the school in question. Therefore, in the catchment area there is not the requisite number of children.

I should like to refer to the list which I believe has been sent in by the Reverend Manager of the school. On that list——

This is making an argument on a question.

I would ask the Minister if the children in the Milltown area of which there are four, the children in the Mount Heaton area of which there are five and children in the Clyduff area of which there are three and one child in the Ballybrack area, making a total of 13 and if, in fact all of these areas come within this school catchment area?

I think there are two children who live nearer the Shinrone national school and are therefore not in the catchment area.

I come from the area and know it intimately. I have gone through the area and investigated it thoroughly and I regret to say it but I think the Minister's information is not quite accurate and I would ask him to have this matter further investigated. I think there is a genuine misunderstanding.

Perhaps the Deputy would like to discuss this with the Minister because if one goes over individual cases one might find where there was some misunderstanding?

I thank the Minister for his courtesy, as I believe these children are definitely entitled to free transport and I ask him to make every effort to have this misunderstanding cleared up and transport provided.

86.

asked the Minister for Education if he will arrange for the provision of transport for 13 children from the Coolbawn area who are attending Doon national school, County Limerick and who are forced to walk a considerable distance to the school bus pick-up point.

Free transport to Doon national school is available for eligible children in this area from a pick-up point at Togher Cross. The maximum distance which any of the children has to walk to this point is 1.2 miles.

It is not possible to extend the service as the road to the homes of the children in the Coolbawn district is too narrow for the bus which operates the service. However, I am arranging to have the network of school bus services operating in and around the area examined to see whether there could be a reorganisation of these services which would release a minibus for the service which caters for the Coolbawn children attending Doon national school.

I am thankful for the Minister's reply but is he aware that two of the children concerned are physically retarded and if transport is not provided these children will be forced to terminate their school careers? Is the Minister aware that the road is wide enough for a minibus and will he give a solemn undertaking in view of the implications to provide this type of transport straightaway?

I am aware that two of the children are in this category and aware that the road might be suitable for a minibus. The problem of reshuffling the services to release a minibus for the purpose is under immediate examination bearing in mind the particular nature of the problem as the Deputy has described it. We must await the results of this study to see if, as I hope, it can be successful.

Is this principle to be adopted generally——

This is a specific question.

What the Minister has said in this case is that the road is too narrow but if they can release a minibus it will be able to negotiate the road. If they are not able to release the minibus the children here and in other cases will be denied a right to which they are entitled.

I thought I was endeavouring to provide the right rather than deny it.