andMr. Gallagher asked the Minister for Justice the number of persons recruited into the Garda Síochána during 1972, 1973, 1974 and 1975; and the proposed number for 1976.

The numbers of persons recruited to the Garda Síochána in 1972, 1973, 1974 and 1975 were 851, 538, 510 and 366 respectively.

With regard to recruitment for 1976, I stated in reply to a question on the 10th February last that the rate of intake of recruits depends on a number of factors and that it was not possible to say precisely how many persons would be recruited this year. The present estimate is that approximately 160 vacancies will require to be filled in this year.

May I ask the Minister why the rate of intake has decreased so rapidly from 800 odd in 1972 down to 160 proposed this year?

The reason is that the maximum establishment will fall below the total by a figure of 160. As the Deputy is aware, the maximum establishment is now 8,500, the highest figure in the history of the State, and the extra rate of recruitment in the years mentioned in the early part of the question was to bring the numbers up to that establishment figure.

Is the Minister aware that in the urban areas there is a grave shortage of gardaí at the moment, a shortage compounded by the non-availability of overtime to the great bulk of the force and, in those circumstances, would the Minister consider increasing the maximum establishment because of the concern felt by so many citizens in regard to violence which has become almost endemic in most of the larger cities and urban areas?

It is wrong to say there is a grave shortage of gardaí in large urban areas. That does not represent the position. Neither does the picture of large urban areas as places of endemic violence.

Is the Minister not aware—if not, he should be—of the position that exists in cities like Dublin, Cork and Limerick where people are absolutely terrified and where there may be, perhaps, a large number of gardaí but they are not available for duty for the great porportion of their time because no overtime is payable?

We are getting away from the subject matter of the question. Overtime does not arise on this question.

Since the Minister is not prepared to pay overtime would he not agree to increasing the force, particularly at a time when there is huge unemployment?

The Deputy's suggestion that no overtime is the cause of any rise in the crime rate is not an accurate interpretation of the situation and I again take issue with his repetition of the alleged state of affairs in our larger cities. They are not lawless areas and he is wrong to represent them as such.

May I take it from what the Minister has said that persons who complain about violence and vandalism in urban areas are, in his view, not telling the truth?

What I said in reply to Deputy O'Malley was that it is wrong to represent our cities and urban areas as places suffering from endemic lawlessness and a high degree of crime. It is wrong to present the situation as that. Citizens are worried about the level of crime and the level here, as in every country in Western Europe, is on the increase, but very often the crime figures are not representative of serious crime.

Vandalism and malicious damage are on the increase and there are outbreaks from time to time in various parts of the country and these have the effect of swelling the total crime figures. What I want to prevent is any suggestion that law and order has broken down in our cities. That is not the case. It is far from the case. As I said on numerous occasions, and recently in an adjournment debate here, the question of the overall strength of the Garda Síochána is kept under continuous review and, as I also indicated on numerous occasions here, the Garda at the moment are the subject of a survey by a team of management consultants. I expect to have their report in July or August and possibly a decision on the question of the overall strength will be taken at that stage.

Having regard to the fact that the views expressed, not only by civilians who live in the urban areas but also by the Garda, do not coincide with those just expressed by the Minister, can we take it that the Minister will at least when he gets the result of the survey, make an effort to restore the recruitment to the level at which it was in 1972?

All I can say in answer to that is that this Government brought the number to the highest in the history of the force.