asked the Minister for Justice the action he proposes to take in response to the call by Cavan County Council for an inquiry into alleged abuse of prisoners.

The resolution passed by Cavan County Council called for a Garda inquiry into allegations of ill-treatment of certain persons who were arrested during the investigation into the recent shooting in Cavan town. As already announced publicly by the Garda authorities, if any person makes a complaint to them that he has been ill-treated while in Garda custody, such complaint will be fully and impartially investigated by the Garda.

I am informed by the Commissioner that no complaint has been made to the Garda by any of the persons concerned.

My information in this case is that prisoners were abused physically, that they made their complaints, that they would not be allowed to see their solicitors, that they would not be allowed to see their families. One prisoner was informed his mother had taken very ill. Later during interrogation he was informed that his mother had died. Neither was true. This is what the Cavan County Council resolution was all about. Since the Minister is looking for specific cases he might take up this one and follow it to a conclusion to bear out or refute entirely the information emanating at the moment from people immediately concerned in this case.

It is not a specific allegation. I reject again this blanket allegation made by Deputy Blaney. As I said in reply to the question: "I am informed by the Commissioner that no complaint has been made to the Garda by any of the persons concerned". I might add it is standard practice for certain elements in our society, ill-disposed to the Garda and opposed to the rule of law and the democratic institutions, to shout "torture" when the gardaí apprehend them for their offences.

The Minister is doing a grave disservice to the Garda in this case and, perhaps, in other cases. I was asked to raise in this House the matter which Cavan County Council have already brought to his notice by way of a resolution and in respect of which I am fully assured there is ample evidence that what I have said is quite correct—not only physical abuse while under arrest, but also this further sort of torture.

Order. I am afraid the Deputy is proceeding to make a speech rather than putting a relevant supplementary question.

I can do it by way of several very brief——

There is a recognised procedure laid down and the Chair has to conform to that.

I am aware of the procedure in the House. I am saying to the Minister for the benefit of his Department and his Garda that he should not ignore what is now coming to his notice.

As I have said already, the Garda will not ignore complaints when they are made to them. They are the people to investigate specific complaints made against them in respect of a specific instance. In regard to the alleged incidents in Cavan, may I repeat for the third time that no complaint has been made to the Garda by any of the persons concerned. If they have a complaint to make, it is to the Garda they should make it and not to Deputy Blaney or to newspapers. If it is a bona fide complaint it will be investigated.

Is it proper for the Minister to indicate that a Member of this House has not got the right to get complaints and bring them to the notice of the House and to his notice? The Garda who are allegedly the people who have infringed these rights are the people to whom the complaint is to be made. They are investigating complaints made about themselves.

Alternatively, if the people in question feel the Garda are not the proper tribunal to investigate it, they may have recourse to the courts of the land like any other citizen.

Is the Minister talking about blanket allegations? I am not making any blanket allegations. I am making a specific allegation.

Has the Deputy a question?

If the Deputy's complaint relates to a particular person and if he does not want to name that person, he can give the name in private. Unless a specific person is named, it is a blanket allegation.

The Minister is sliding——

I am not sliding. I am trying to save the guards from blanket smears.

The Minister has referred to people being lifted in connection with a particular incident. If he knows that he knows who they are. I am asking the Minister to investigate this——

If Deputy Blaney has a specific complaint in respect of a specific person——

Question No. 10.

I am saying to the Minister that he knows well——

I do not know.

The next question has been called.

This is a matter——

Would Deputy Blaney please desist and allow the Minister to answer the next question?

I have already invited the Deputy to give more details. If he does, the matter will be investigated.

This disorder must cease.

You have no order anyway, neither inside nor outside.