asked the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries whether he considers that the failure to secure a realistic devaluation of the Irish green £ means in effect that Irish producers are being deprived of the real price for their animals and that they are subsidising consumer prices, whereas consumers in Great Britain are subsidised to the tune of £1.50 million per day by the EEC itself.

The most recent adjustment in the Irish green £, which resulted in a reduction of ten percentage points in the Irish MCA, was the sixth such adjustment since October, 1974. The cumulative effect of these reductions has been to increase farm support prices in Ireland by 38 per cent and to reduce our MCAs by 50 per cent.

Despite the significant adjustments which we have obtained, the level of Irish MCA remains persistently high. For this, among other reasons, I am supporting recent Commission proposals to modify the MCA system by establishing limits on MCAs and automatic adjustment mechanisms. These proposals are along the lines of suggestions that I have repeatedly made in the council.

The existence of MCAs undoubtedly reduces the value of Irish agricultural exports. The MCA system has, however, on the other hand, helped to preserve the common price and intervention system in the face of huge currency fluctuations.

The MCA charges on Irish exports are, in common with the charges on exports from the other depreciated member states and the charges on import in the appreciated member states, paid into Community funds. The MCA subsidies payable on import in the depreciated member states—in-cluding Ireland—are paid from Community funds.

Does the Parliamentary Secretary not agree that the disproportion between the real value of Irish sterling at present and the green currency is in the region of 25 per cent? Does he not also agree that the Irish MCA at present is £7.61p per cwt? Does he not further agree that the export taxes on Irish exports of cattle to the Continent will be between £90 and £100 per beast, that this is direct taxation on the Irish producer; and that the failure of the Government to come to a realistic devaluation of the green currency in order to avoid a rise in the cost of living which could be compensated by food subsidies is keeping down the production of foodstuffs on which we depend? Will the Parliamentary Secretary say that there must be a total withdrawal of MCAs before there is any realistic effect?

I am aware that there is a variation in the MCAs——

Of 25 per cent.

Yes, 25 per cent at present, that is correct. As I mentioned, we are repeatedly making representations on this line. We are quite conversant with what is happening so far as the level of MCAs is concerned, and we are trying to have them reduced. So far as the green £ is concerned, we have had six adjustments since 1974——

None of them adequate.

——and we have supported proposals submitted recently by the Commissioner covering comprehensively this whole question of MCAs.

Covering comprehensively?

Yes, and the green £.

Does the Parliamentary Secretary not realise that the last devaluation of the green £ was used up within three weeks of its being granted?

That is possibly correct to some extent.

Completely.

We have advocated that the only way to keep the MCA system in reasonable check is to apply ceilings on MCAs and establish an automatic adjustment mechanism. That is what the Minister is trying to do, and it will be discussed at council level again.

Would the Minister not think that the complete elimination of the MCA system would be better?

Yes, but the Minister is only one of nine. When we are dealing with the Community we have to put forward our case, but there is also an obligation on us to listen to the views of others.

13.

asked the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries if he considers the operation of the EEC three-kilogram rule to be an inhibition of processing in Irish meat factories; and the steps he has taken to have it waived.

There has been no change in the position set out in my reply to the Deputy on this matter on 2nd June, 1976.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary not aware that the biggest employment content and the best market prices will be got by Cryovac-packed oven ready joints of Irish meats and that because of the operation of the three-kilogram rule prepacked oven ready joints cannot be exported at present? Is he not further aware that that does not operate within the Benelux countries and would he not agree that the same freedom should apply to Irish producers?

I am aware that the Irish representatives have sought on a number of occasions to have the position altered, but so far no change has been secured. It is our intention to continue pursuing this matter.

Would the Parliamentary Secretary not agree that nearly four years is rather a long time to be unsuccessfully making the case?

No.

And in the meantime meat factories are shutting in the south of Ireland.

It is a matter that is being actively pursued.

Actively pursued for the last——

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that there was a report made quite recently on the Irish meat factories and the potential of the English market, and that it recommended very strongly that our Irish meat processors should adopt the Cryovac packed method of exporting, that there was a ready market for it in England, one that could expand, and that they could get an extra 4p per pound for Irish meat by exporting Cryovac packs?

I doubt if the Deputy's assertions are correct.

He is absolutely correct.

14.

asked the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries if, having regard to the declining size of cattle herds and the consequential drop in available factory supplies, he will state the steps the Government have taken to maintain present employment levels.

I expect the levels of slaughterings at beef export factories in 1976 and 1977 to be only a little below the then record level of 1974. I cannot therefore agree that these factories are facing a shortage of cattle.

The second part of the Deputy's question therefore does not arise.

Could I refer the Parliamentary Secretary to the current issue of the CBF Irish Livestock and Meat Bulletin in which the estimates for Irish beef exports were given: 1975, 414,000 tons; 1976, 340,000 tons —that is a drop of 18 per cent——

Quotations are not in order at Question Time.

——and an estimated figure of 280,000 tons, a total drop of 33 per cent. Does the Parliamentary Secretary not agree, in view of these figures published by the CBF, that there is going to be a drastic drop in the employment of Irish workers in meat factories, especially since the Government have done nothing about the three-kilogram rule?

I most certainly do not agree with any such contention. I have here figures for slaughtering in the three years, 1974, 1975 and 1976, to the end of the first week of November in each year. In 1974 the slaughterings were 838,785; in 1975, 1,154,185; and in 1976, 802,753. Therefore the figures for 1974 and 1976 more or less coincide. Everybody knows that the processing plants were, to use a term that is now used in some quarters, overworked in 1975, and we had Deputy Crinion here telling us about all the profits they were making as a result of the surplus supply. The position has now levelled off, and I cannot see any justification for the implications in Deputy Gibbons' supplementary question.

According to the CBF, Córas Beostoic agus Feola, there was a drop of 18 per cent in the throughput of Irish factories.

The Deputy is imparting information rather than seeking it.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that there is a drop of almost one million in the size of the cattle herd, and, how in these circumstances, can we keep the throughput up?

I have given the figures. We had a big sale of what one might term old cows in 1975, when the number sold exceeded——

You destroyed the herds——

Order.

Of course the Deputy was telling the people, through this House, that the dairying industry was finished. Possibly some were foolish enough to take the advice and sell off their cows. What happened subsequently——

Order. No. 15.

My name was mentioned and I think I should have a chance of asking a supplementary question.

I will facilitate the Deputy. A brief question, please.

Would the Parliamentary Secretary say that in 1974-75 the meat factories did not make excessive profits at the expense of the farming community?

We are entering into another area altogether. The profitability of the enterprise does not arise.

What I said was that the supply was in excess of requirements and that it was difficult for the factories to handle all the——

No. 15.

15.

asked the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries if he has received a copy of the report commissioned by the IDA on the meat industry; if so, if he will state its main implications, particularly for the next two years; and if it will be circulated to Deputies.

I have received a copy of this report but I would not be justified in revealing its contents as it was commissioned and paid for by the Industrial Development Authority. The question of publishing or circulating the report is one for the Authority themselves.

Does the Parliamentary Secretary agree that there is a critical period of under-supply coming for the Irish meat industry and that there will be further closures and redundancies within that industry?

This question relates to a report which has been published by the IDA and the Irish meat industry. I have answered this question.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary suggesting that a report commissioned by the IDA, which is a State-sponsored body, should not be presented to the members of the Oireachtas?

I am suggesting that it is a matter for the Authority.