asked the Minister for Education the teacher/pupil ratio in (i) primary, (ii) secondary, and (iii) tertiary education.

The average teacher/ pupil ration in primary schools is 1 : 30.7. The teacher/pupil ratio approved for secondary schools for the current school year is 1:19. In the case of vocational schools the teaching staff are allocated to each vocational education committee on the basis of one teacher for every 16.5 pupils.

In the case of the second-level schools the rations exclude the principal, vice-principal and guidance teacher, in the schools where enrolment exceeds 250 pupils. In tertiary education, there is no formal staff/student ration prescribed and having regard to the variety of institutions and courses involved the calculation of such a ratio would not be meaningful.

Will the Minister explain the difference between the ratios in secondary schools and in vocational schools?

That is a separate question.

Surely the Minister knows the reason why the ratios are different in those schools.

I know the reason the ratio is now one for every 16.5 pupils in the vocational schools. It is because I reduced it to that. I know also why it is 1:19 in secondary schools. It is because I reduced it to that figure.

Of course we will give credit to the Minister where he does good work. That is not the question I asked. I asked for his explanation for the difference in the ratio for secondary schools and for vocational schools. It was a straigthforward question.

It will get a straightforward answer. The distinction was in existence before I reduced the ratio. I reduced by one in each case. Now it stands at 16.5:1 and 19:1. I imagine that originally the advantage went to vocational schools. They probably had more difficulty in the actual teaching.

I accept the mathematical differences; I can see them for myself. Will the Minister not agree that as the vocational schools sector has expanded and is now on a par with secondary schools there should be more equilibrium in the two ratios at the lower level?

Is the Deputy suggesting that I raise the ratio for vocational schools to 19:1?

I said at the lower figure.

For example, there are woodwork and metalwork subjects as well as other subjects taught in vocational schools so that classes have to be broken up into smaller units. That is one part of the problem. I said there was more difficulty in dealing with vocational teaching.

Is it the Minister's intention or desire to reduce eventually the pupil/teacher ratio in secondary schools to 15:1?

I have not published any policy on that. I know that it existed at 15:1 at one stage. Of course I am depending on the goodwill of many people. I shall try to improve the ratio as best I can.

Will the Minister tell the House when the pupil/teacher ratio went from 15:1 to 20:1?

I think the Deputy knows the answer to that question.

I should like to get it on the record that it was a previous Fianna Fáil Minister who did that. The Minister has told us that he reduced the ratio in both secondary and vocational schools since he took up office. Can he tell the House how many graduates have been employed as a result?

If the Deputy will put down a question I will get the information for him. I presume he means teachers in both sectors? I do not think the statistics are compiled as yet but in any event it has nothing to do with this question.

Is the Minister sure he has not got the information there? The Department of Education must have changed considerably in four months if they do not provide all information.

Perhaps the Deputy will put down a question. I find the Minister for Finance quite liberal so far. I shall probably get the bullets later on, but no matter.