asked the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs if he has received representations supporting the application for a licence for Radio Dublin; and the number of letters that have been received by his Department in support of Radio Dublin getting such a licence.

17.

asked the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs if he has received an application for a broad-casting licence from an organisation known as Radio Dublin; if he will be sympathetic to such an application; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 16 and 17 together.

An application has been received for such a licence and the applicants have been informed that it cannot be granted. Approximately 3,200 letters in support of the application have been received in my Department in recent weeks.

The operators of "Radio Dublin" are well aware of the legal position. Under the Wireless Telegraphy Act, 1926, anyone who has in his possession or uses wireless telegraphy apparatus without a licence from the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs is committing an offence. Under the Broad-casting Authority Act, 1960 RTE is the only organisation which may be licensed to provide a broadcasting service. As broadcasting requires the use of scarce radio frequencies which cannot be confined to national boundaries, international agreement on the control of the allocation and use of such frequencies is essential. This control is exercised in this country by my Department. Unlicensed radio stations are a potential menace to radio services generally, including life-saving services. My Department will accordingly continue to take action against all unlicensed broadcasting stations.

I am sure the Minister is aware that Radio Dublin gives great pleasure to a lot of young people and for that reason would he not agree that there is a need for a local pop radio station of that sort, even if it is to be run by RTE? Would the Minister agree to look into this matter urgently with a view to providing such a station?

I am sure the Deputy will agree that the simple fact of the matter is that the law is being flagrantly and publicly violated by these pirate radios. I have no doubt that a well orchestrated campaign is being carried on to try to force the granting of a licence. In so far as the need for such a station is concerned I should like to state that RTE have a duty to provide for all our citizens, not just for any one group of citizens.

Would the Minister reiterate to at least two of his prominent backbenchers, including a former employee of RTE, that the airwaves of this country belong to the people of Ireland and that they are not up for grabs by commercial speculators?

We cannot have a statement on this matter.

I do not think I need say anything to my backbenchers. I want to state that the radio frequencies are a scarce national resource and they should be used for the benefit of all the people.

While every Member unreservedly accepts what the Minister has said about the scarcity of airwaves and the absolute necessity of safeguarding the security services which depend on unimpeded airwaves, and while no Member condones a breaking of the law, I should like to ask the Minister if he has taken legal advice in regard to whether he is in the right in taking up the position, whether dependent on the 1960 Act or otherwise, that nobody, except RTE, is in principle entitled to broadcast?

The Deputy is aware that legislation gives the right to RTE only and it is hardly my business to take legal advice as to whether or not they are acting legally.

The Minister might take up that attitude and find himself in the end, two courts later, having to take up a different attitude. Would the Minister consider taking legal advice now as to whether that attitude is likely to be upheld in the end? He could save a lot of money.

We all want to know if the Government have any intention, arising out of these applications or RTE's programmes for community radio, to have private commercial radios licensed by the Government, whether by change of legislation or otherwise?

That question does not arise out of the two questions before the House.

It arises out of the reply of the Minister and it is the nub of the entire issue.

It does not properly arise.

Could the Minister state why the application was refused, what the mechanics of the application were and if it is correct that under the 1926 Act, in particular sections 5 and 6, the Minister has power to issue a licence and make conditions for any radio station and not just the national one as we now know it?

I cannot say what the format of the application was. If I was to consider licensing I can assure the Deputy that those who flagrantly break the law would be on a very low priority rating.

18.

asked the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs if an application for a broadcasting licence has been received from Alternative Radio Dublin (ARD); if a request was made by ARD for an official form on which to make an application; if that form was supplied; and, if not, why.

My Department have no record of receiving an application for a broadcasting licence or a request for an application form in this case. RTE is the only body which can be given a broadcasting licence.

Does the Minister accept that the people involved here are not by nature law breakers or flagrant violators of the airwaves? Does the Minister agree that an effort was made to apply for a licence but his Department indicated that no regulations existed by which an application could be made?

There is nothing to prevent anybody making an application but my Department inform me that there is no record of having received an application.

I want to make one final point.

We must go on. We have had sufficient supplementaries on this matter.

The Chair allowed me just one supplementary and the Chair allowed ten minutes earlier on another matter.

I will allow the Deputy one final supplementary. The Deputy should not question the Chair's ruling on this matter.

Is the Minister willing to look at an application from this organisation and make a judgment on it? Will he indicate, arising out of what he said vis-à-vis the national station, that it is, according to the Act, the only station entitled to operate a service, and by what licence they operate?

I am not willing to accept an application.

I want the Minister to consider one. Are these people, as citizens, not entitled to apply to the Minister and to expect his respect?

I pointed out that RTE is the only body that can be given a broadcasting licence and, therefore, I cannot see much point in considering it.

That is not legally right.

Are there any proposals to change that?

I should like to ask the Minister if the need for such legislation has not been amply demonstrated and if he proposes to introduce amending legislation to provide such stations:

The Minister is forcing these people to become law breakers.

Which would the Deputy prefer: that we be rushed into making a decision in relation to a matter of this sort by all the commercial pressures which are so obvious or that we should consider carefully and examine every aspect of a matter of this kind?

That is what I was asking the Minister to do instead of branding these people as law breakers.

Is the Minister aware that the Department issued a statement, through the GIS, about ten days ago in which the Department said that one of its functions in this regard was to protect the financial position of RTE? Does the Minister recognise that is a different motive from everything he has been telling the House today and one which is a great deal less respectable than the one which he has advanced but with which everybody agrees?

I have put forward my reasons.

That is a separate question.