asked the Minister for Tourism and Transport the provision that has been made by his Department to ensure that public transport services expand in line and in phase with the suburban expansion of this country's major urban centres.

9.

asked the Minister for Tourism and Transport the detailed discussions that have taken place between his Department and the Department of the Environment regarding the standard of public transport service within the Dublin region.

10.

asked the Minister for Tourism and Transport if he has received a submission from CIE regarding the suburban rail electrification scheme; and, if so, if he is in a position to indicate whether his Department has sanctioned its implementation.

With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 8, 9 and 10 together.

The responsibility of providing urban passenger transport is part of CIE's statutory duty, imposed by the Transport Act 1958, to provide reasonable, efficient and economical transport services.

I have been informed by CIE that they have adopted two approaches to ensuring that public transport services expand in line with the expansion of the major urban centres. The first approach is the alteration of the existing services as and when changes in travel demand arise. The continuing expansion of urban centres has demanded that CIE revise their route patterns and frequencies regularly and new routes and timetables are introduced as required. The board's second approach is related to the longer term requirements for public transport services. These requirements have been the subject of transportation studies in the major urban centres and CIE has been associated with all of them.

Consultation between my Department and the Department of the Environment about urban transport requirements is arranged from time to time as the need arises. In addition CIE have frequent discussions with the Department of the Environment and the local authorities in Dublin regarding public transport services within the Dublin region.

CIE have submitted proposals for the electrification of the Howth/Bray railway line. The examination of these proposals and the necessary consultation with other Departments is proceeding and the proposals will in due course come before the Government for consideration.

I thank the Minister for his comprehensive reply. The Minister took the three questions together and I have a number of supplementary questions to ask.

With regard to the reply to Question No. 8, the Minister mentioned, if I got the answer correctly, that CIE have an obligation to monitor urban transport services as and when changes are required. Later the Minister suggested that CIE would respond as required. I am concerned that this response is not adequate and I am wondering could the Minister define precisely what is meant by "as and when changes demand" and "as and when required" and would he say if there are financial threshold limitations before any bus route changes and the development of routes take place?

I am sure the Deputy will accept that in a newly built-up area CIE would need to be making their plans in relation to servicing that area and that would be the point at which they would be aware a change was required. The Deputy is probably aware that sometimes the difficulty that arises in regard to that particular situation is where the local authority have not taken over the roads. Very often there is a considerable time lag in such cases which would not be the fault of CIE.

If the Minister has the information available could he indicate whether CIE are in a position, assuming a road is taken in charge, to provide a service on the day the new estate is opened or must CIE wait until a certain level of population has moved in, a level which will provide an economic threshold to cover the cost of providing the service?

I have not got that information but I would imagine that as soon as there is a reasonable number of people in the area a service is made available to them.

Does that mean that, if there is not a reasonable number of people in an area, CIE are not in a position to provide a reasonable service? If Dublin Corporation houses people out beyond Blanchardstown what is the definition of a reasonable number of people "as and when changes .... demand" before the people are provided with a service?

I am sure CIE, in examining such a situation, would be able to assess when it was necessary to bring a service in. As I said, however, the main problem that I have found in regard to this is the fact that roads are not available to take bus traffic.

I am talking now specifically about local authority schemes so we can get rid of the question of roads in charge. Is there a cost limit set by the Minister's Department before CIE provide a bus service into a new estate?

There would not be a cost limit set by my Department. I do not know what CIE may do.