asked the Minister for Agriculture if he is aware of the special hardship on old people which is being imposed by the Government's recent decisions to revoke the subsidy on cheese; and if he will take steps to have the decision reconsidered by the Government.

There is no evidence to indicate that special hardship will be imposed on old people as a result of the Government's decision to terminate the subsidy on cheese and instead to concentrate the dairy product subsidies on butter and milk for which an additional £4½ million has been provided this year.

Indeed while no definite data is available in relation to individual expenditure and consumption patterns for dairy products, the available evidence suggests the expenditure on cheese is greater among households in the higher income group whereas expenditure on butter and milk, which will cost the Exchequer £41 million in consumer subsidies in 1978, tends to be highest among the lower income categories.

Will the Minister not accept that removal of a subsidy on such a basic protein foodstuff as this is bound to inflict a degree of hardship on all people and that that hardship will be accentuated on those least able to afford such foods, who are the elderly?

The Deputy will have heard in my reply—which was fairly comprehensive—that the areas which benefit the poorer people most in the subsidy which we increased by £4½ million are those of milk and butter. It is better from the point of view of the consumer that food subsidies in the dairy foods sector be concentrated on milk and butter.

From the point of view of the person living in the city that distinction is a fine one. Might I ask the Minister if the removal of the subsidy is not in total contradiction of what was promised prior to the election vis-à-vis foodstuffs when it was said quite clearly that the subsidy would not be taken off foods? Secondly, may we take this as being the first indication of a removal of subsidies generally from foodstuffs?

Increasing substantially the amount devoted to foodstuffs is not an indication, as was suggested by the Deputy, of the Government's intention to reduce the subsidy. Surely it must mean the opposite.

Well there was a subsidy on cheese and now there is not.

Deputies opposite were demonstrating their skill with figures on the previous question. They should apply the same thinking to these.

Could the Minister give us a breakdown of the £4½ million increase he spoke of?

I cannot conveniently. If the Deputy would care to put down a separate question I should be glad to.

When it is a question of £4½ million the House should know where that money went.

On butter and milk.

We might as well say bread and tea. The Minister should let us know where the increases were effected, whether on butter or milk, and how much.

The food subsidies carried on the agricultural Estimate are dairy products. The subsidy has been withdrawn from cheese. Therefore the subsidy remains, and has been substantially increased, on milk and butter. If the Deputy wants the breakdown of how much on milk and how much on butter he should put down a question.

Questions Nos. 5 and 6 postponed.