asked the Minister for Education the pupil-teacher ratio in national schools at 1 July 1977; and at the latest available date.

The pupil-teacher ratio in national schools in respect of the school year 1977-78 was 30.6. The corresponding figure in respect of the school year 1976-77 was 30.8.

These ratios are based in the main on data collected at the commencement of the school years in question, that is, 1 September 1977 and 1976 respectively.

Data in respect of 1978-79 are at present being collected.

Has the Minister any projection for the reduction in the pupil-teacher ratio in the years ahead? What is his expectation in this regard?

The figures I gave the Deputy are very pleasing but they conceal within the system certain schools that have large classes. I have a stated commitment on that.

Did I hear the Minister correctly when he said that the ratio had been reduced over the two years from 30.8 to 30.6?

I stated that the ratio had been reduced from 30.8 in 1976-77 to 30.6 in 1977-78.

Would the Minister maintain that the reduction in the overall pupil-teacher ratio of .2 is a suitable memorial to his first year in office?

The figure of .2 can be made to sound nugatory but over an area where we have almost 600,000 pupils at school it is not so nugatory.

What is the Minister's considered ideal in pupil-teacher ratio? What is he aiming at?

My final ambition is to reduce all classes to 32 pupils but there is a difficulty in that we may have a school in which there is, for example, a large infant class of 40 to 45 children and another class of ten pupils. That is an organisational and structural problem which is difficult to solve.

Is the Minister in a position to say whether the larger classes are to be found in city regions or rural areas? Has the Minister any figures to indicate which areas suffer the greatest disparity?

Inner city areas are not suffering too badly. The pupil-teacher ratio is much better in those areas.

Is the Minister in a position to give the figures for urban areas versus rural?

It would be very difficult to compare like with like. Generally speaking, in purely rural areas— sociologists make the distinction between purely rural areas and semirural areas—the ratio is better than it is in the cities and provincial towns.

In the context of pupil-teacher ratios generally does the Minister see any case for a regional approach or positive discrimination as regards certain areas as opposed to the apparent desired achievement of a national figure applied right across the board? Does the Minister see a case for considering a particular approach in certain areas in order to compensate for other educational cum environmental deprivations, for example?

Wherever possible I have exercised discrimination in favour of inner city schools where the pupil-teacher ratio was already good but where there are other difficulties and extra care is needed.