asked the Minister for Agriculture if he is aware that the average annual rate of growth in food production per head has risen at a slower rate from 1970 to 1976 in Western Europe than in any of the other major regions of the developed world; if this is a matter for concern; if it indicates a case for a review of the policies being used to encourage food production in the EEC; and if the matter has at any time been discussed by the Council of Ministers or the European Commission.

The Fourth FAO World Food Survey shows that in the period 1970 to 1976 food production per head in Western Europe rose at a somewhat slower rate than in some other regions of the developed world. The value of this comparison must, of course, be viewed against such factors as the effective demand for food products, the differing ratios of population to land and the varying degrees of basic agricultural development of the regions concerned.

With regard to food production in the EEC, as the Deputy is no doubt aware, the Community is already self-sufficient or close to self-sufficiency, for many of the main agricultural products. Indeed the emergence in recent years of surpluses of some of these products, coupled with the high cost to the Community of their disposal, is an issue of concern and controversy in the Community at the present time. Such problems, including the situation on Community and world markets, are regularly discussed by the Council of Ministers and especially at the annual fixing of agricultural prices.

Would the Minister not agree that it is a cause for concern in relation to the common agricultural policy if the increase in food production in Europe is falling behind that of other developed countries at the same time as the problem of world hunger is increasing, and that we should be endeavouring to direct our food production to assist in the alleviation of world hunger?

I suppose that would be the right type of policy to adopt. But we have our problems as regards surpluses within the EEC and we must try to solve that problem first.

Would the Minister not agree that by the time that problem is solved a large number of people will have died of starvation and that that is not the right approach?

I agree.

Would the Minister not agree that it would be wrong to say: we must solve our surpluses problem first before we do anything about the fact that there are millions of people starving throughout the world?

This problem has existed for a long number of years. It is something that will not be solved overnight.

I know that.

29.

asked the Minister for Agriculture if he is aware that the World Food and Agriculture Organisation has stated that up to ten times the area of the world which is already desert is now at significant risk of becoming desert because of climatic and cultivation changes; and the assistance Ireland is giving to the countries concerned to halt this process in the interest of alleviating world hunger.

This problem was discussed at an International Conference on Desertification which was held in Nairobi in 1977. Arising out of the conference a plan of action at international, regional and national level was prepared. In the International sector the main assistance given is the provision through the appropriate United Nations agencies of funds, fertilisers, technical assistance, training and so on.

Through our membership of FAO we support and contribute to various activities which include projects to counter desertification. We also contribute to the World Food Programme which provides certain funds to alleviate this problem.

Would the Minister agree, first of all, that the most acute problem of desertification is occuring in countries which already have an acute starvation problem? Secondly, would the Minister state what aid, in terms of money, Ireland is giving to alleviate this problem?

I cannot specify what assistance our Government are giving to the plan of action. But I can outline for the Deputy the plan of action which stressed three levels of action—national, regional and international approaches on combating desertification. The request urged Governments to identify specific projects to alleviate situations and quantify, in terms of finance and personnel, the requirements for the implementation of these projects. That is the plan of action. I have no information as regards our contribution towards alleviating the problem.

Would the Minister consider asking the appropriate research agencies here—in particular, An Foras Talúntais—to see if some of their resources might be made available to assist the countries concerned in combating this grave problem affecting people who are already near or at the brink of starvation?

I will do that, yes.

30.

asked the Minister for Agriculture if he is aware that FAO figures show that between 1969-1971 and 1972-1974 the number of under-nourished persons in the world grew by 54 million to 455 million altogether, or by twice the rate of overall growth in population, although it is estimated that world food production was 107 per cent of requirements in 1972-1974 as against 106 per cent in 1969-1971; if this divergent trend has in his opinion continued since 1974, and the changes in EEC policy which in his opinion as a member of the Council of Ministers would contribute to an alleviation of the situation.

The percentages which the Deputy quotes for world food production in fact relate to per capul daily food supply in terms of calories. These show that for the world as a whole there was a marginal increase in the daily surplus over daily requirements. The corresponding percentages for developing countries also showed a marginal increase—in this case a narrowing of the shortfall between requirements and supply. I would hope that this convergent trend is continuing.

The Community is fully alert to the problem of undernourishment in the world and is in the forefront as regards providing aid to alleviate hunger. In 1978 the Community's food aid programme cost over 220 million units of account.

Is the Minister stating that the figure I gave—that indicates that there are 455 million people at or near the brink of starvation—is incorrect?

I did not give a figure of approximately 400 million.

Would the Minister not agree that the situation is that, although more food per head is being produced in the world than was produced some years ago at the same time there are now more people starving and that this is radically wrong?

This seems to be the situation. As I have said, the Food Aid Programme of the EEC in 1978 cost over 220 million units of account so that the Community are doing their best to come to grips with the problem.

Would the Minister not agree that food aid, which may amount to nothing more than unloading some food we do not want to countries which cannot absorb it because it does not suit their particular diet, is not the answer to the problem of world starvation and that we need something more radical than that? Would the Minister of State agree to ask his Minister to look into this problem to ascertain what can be done at European level to solve the problem, because Ireland alone can do very little?

I will do that. But Ireland has played her own part too because we have contributed, or pledged to contribute, £600,000 to the programme for 1979 which will be used for the purpose of purchasing skim milk powder for needy countries.

Six hundred thousand pounds?

Yes, £600,000.

And that is disposing of our milk surplus to third countries?

It is for the purchase of skim milk powder for those countries.

Would the Minister not consider it would be better to enable the countries in question to produce their own food?

The climatic situations and everything else have to be taken into consideration; maybe that is not possible.