asked the Minister for Education if he has yet concluded an agreement in respect of draft deeds of trust for the initial batch of community schools and, if not, if he will state the outstanding points of disagreement and the interested parties with which these disagreements arise; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

18.

asked the Minister for Education if he is aware of a report (details supplied) concerning the existence of a document listing proposed changes in the deeds of trust for community schools; and, if so, if he will give details of the changes proposed.

With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 17 and 18 together.

Considerable progress on the draft deeds of trust has been made in discussions with the various bodies.

I am not in a position to make any further statement in regard to it at the present time.

Does the Minister not feel that the Dáil should be informed of the progress made in relation to the deeds of trust especially in view of the increasing number of schools which cannot open because the deeds of trust have not yet been finalised? Could he give us some positive information in respect of the remaining differences between himself and the other parties involved?

To my knowledge, there is no such thing as a great number of schools that cannot be opened pending the signing of the deeds of trust.

I said that an increasing number of schools cannot be opened.

I do not know if there is more than one.

Would the Minister not at least confirm or deny the report in the Irish Independent that he is adopting a different approach to the question of reserve posts in schools depending on whether the schools are new ones or replacements for existing secondary schools?

The Minister does not conceive it as part of his duty to comment on what appears in any newspaper.

Would the Minister not accept that he is accountable to this House. As this is a matter of considerable public interest and concern, would the Minister not agree that the Members of the House are entitled to information from him and should not have to rely on newspaper leaks in relation to matters of public policy of this importance and would he have further and greater regard for his duties to this House?

The Minister has a major regard for his obligation and duty to inform this House. He has informed them that he has been carrying on negotiations from a frozen position as a result of the inactivity of the previous Government and has now made considerable progress towards an agreed deed of trust. The House should be encouraging agreement because the community schools are already in operation and are already providing a fine service at post-primary level.

Is the Minister aware that his frozen position originated with his colleague, Deputy Faulkner, who for three years froze the position? Would the Minister not agree that the Dáil is entitled to details of the final document and would he not further agree that we are entitled to a debate on the draft deeds of trust?

The frost lasted through 1973, 1974, 1975, 1976 and half of 1977. I immediately set about having negotiations to thaw the situation and I think I made considerable progress. The House will be informed and a copy of the deeds of trust will be placed in the Library, as I have already told the Deputy.

The Minister asked for our co-operation in encouraging people to reach agreement. That was reasonable and we certainly would give it, but then immediately afterwards he entered into a political-type debate of a less than honest kind and that does not help him to receive the consensus which might assist him in reaching an agreement on this problem.

I made a fair comment on the evolution of the deeds of trust.

Leaving aside the frozen 1973 position, does the Minister not agree that placing the document in the Library falls far short of the parliamentary necessity to have this document discussed in the House? Does he agree that the elected representatives are entitled to that?

I will keep the House fully informed about the progress of the draft deeds of trust.

The Minister spoke of his accountability to the House. Does he not agree that that responsibility demands that he would place the document before the House for discussion before it is signed?

We have had enough discussion on this question. We have been having continuing argument.

It is difficult to know what will be in the document until the final form of the agreement has been completed.