asked the Minister for Health how means are assessed for medical card holders who get their income from small farms.

When an applicant for a medical card is engaged in farming his means are assessed on the basis of his income from all sources including the sale of produce and stock, social welfare payments and off-farm earnings, if any. These earnings, and expenses which might be set off against farm income, are then verified by the local community welfare officer. The net income is then assessed against the guidelines which apply to all applicants for medical cards.

With due respect to the Minister, the question I tried to ask was how exactly is the income of small farmers assessed leaving out, as we understand, savings or social welfare payments. If a man has four cows and four calves and a valuation of £10, how do the Department assess his income? That is the information I want.

The Department do not assess him. It is the health boards who assess him.

Is there a standard application form for farmers? Does a similar form apply in the eight health board areas? Is each board entitled to make out its own list of questions for farmers?

I would have thought the Deputy would know the obligation to issue medical cards in appropriate cases is placed by statute on the chief executive officer in each health board.

I know that most unsatisfactory system exists.

Question No. 14.

I have not finished with Question No. 13. Did the Minister ever see one of these application forms which farmers have to complete to get a medical card? Does he know the type of form it is and the type of questions? It is almost impossible for any farmer——

The Deputy may ask a question.

I asked the Minister if he knows the type of form a farmer has to complete. It would take a person from his firm of accountants to complete that form in accordance with the demands of the health authorities.

I have no firm of accountants.

The Minister's former firm.

The Deputy is giving information rather than seeking it.

Small farmers have to complete forms indicating the value of their one quarter acre of potatoes, their rood of turnips, their ten hens, and how much money they got for reactors they sold.

The Deputy is making a speech.

This is a ridiculous system for assessing farmers and I want to voice my disgust with that system.

The Deputy may do that at another time.

I want to bring it to the Minister's notice.

Has the Minister considered the recommendation in the commission's report some time ago that people on the general medical services register and people with limited eligibility should all have medical cards rather than having this three way sort of situation? That recommendation was made some time ago. Has the Minister considered it or will he consider it in the future?

It would not be appropriate in present circumstances to bring about a situation where all persons who are eligible for limited eligibility for hospital services would be issued with medical cards. That would not be feasible.

Would the Minister consider introducing a valuation system?

I am no wiser now than I was when I asked the Minister this question.

The Deputy asked me how means are assessed for medical card holders who get their income from small farms. I have set out that information.

I should still like to know how the holder of a small farm is assessed. Would the Minister consider assessing that man on his valuation, as is done for other social welfare beneficiaries? That is the only sensible way it could be done. Would the Minister consider that and would he recommend it?

I will certainly consider it.

Will the Minister recommend it?

Purely on a valuation basis?

Yes.

In view of the hardship caused to small farmers in completing the application forms, would it be possible to adopt a notional system and say that their income is £x for each £1 of land valuation? This would be a great relief to the farming community.

That is the same as the point Deputy White was making. I would imagine it would probably require a change in the legislation, because the legislation indicates that each case must be considered on its merits and in relation to the circumstances of the individual or the family. I do not think we would be discharging that obligation in the statute if we were simply to adopt a rule of thumb notional assessment based on valuation.

Will the Minister consider changing the system, because it is completely unfair?

I am aware that it gives rise to a lot of dissatisfaction.

Will the Minister do something about it?

Will the Deputy not leave the farmer lobby to deal with this matter and he and I will look after——

The farmer lobby dealt with the Minister when he was Minister for Agriculture.

I am exchanging some good humoured banter with my colleague on the Labour benches and there is no need for the Fine Gael spokesman to intrude his "aggro" into the situation.