asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs if, in view of the judgment of the Court of Human Rights in the case which the Irish Government brought against the United Kingdom and the undertaking then given by the British Government, the Minister proposes to make any protest regarding the grave substantiated allegations of continued brutal treatment of persons in custody in Castlereagh interrogation centre by the RUC made recently.

7.

asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs to make a statement on the Bennett Report and to outline what action is being taken by the Government in relation to the clear breaches of human rights in certain police stations in Northern Ireland.

With the permission, of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 6 and 7 together.

The Government consider it of fundamental importance that interrogations by the security forces in Northern Ireland should be carried out with full respect at all times for the human and legal rights of the person held and avail of the contacts which take place with the British authorities both at political and official level to ensure that they are fully aware of the concern of the Government in this regard. In the course of these contacts we have been repeatedly assured that the British Government stand by the undertaking given by the British Attorney General before the European Court of Human Rights in February 1977 and that they do not authorise or condone any maltreatment of suspects. In the light of the recent and disquieting disclosures we have again raised the matter to reiterate our grave concern to the British Government. We have in particular asked what action will be taken by them in the context of the recently published Bennett Report to ensure that the conduct of the police and particularly those engaged in interrogation centres will be in accordance with the undertakings given to the European Court of Human Rights, and to the Irish Government, by the British Attorney General.

We have also expressed the view that it is only by such action that the entire community in Northern Ireland can be expected to increase their confidence in the process of law, something which the Government consider an essential precondition for normality in Northern Ireland and the evolution of political ideas towards reconciliation and peace.

I met some of those people and there seemed to be a prima facie case at the time for their claims that they were brutalised in those interrogation centres. Is there any established process whereby an Irish citizen who claims to have been brutally treated in an interrogation centre and who chooses to look for the help of the Southern Government can make that claim, have it examined to establish its validity and, if it is a valid case, have action taken by the Government or the Minister's Department?

I assure the Deputy that there is a process. Any Irish citizen who has a complaint in respect of ill-treatment here or elsewhere—my responsibility is in relation to Foreign Affairs—can, and it would be welcomed by my Department, make a formal complaint. Obviously we can rely only on the facts which he presents to us. We are not, either here or in relation to international consultations, a competent court of law. We cannot make decisions, but I assure the Deputy that we will pursue those complaints very diligently to try to represent the best interests of our citizens in the hope of bringing normality and peace about in Northern Ireland.

Does the Minister agree that in the light of the Bennett Report we cannot now accept the undertakings given by the British Attorney General to which he referred in his reply?

While the undertakings given at Strasbourg related to particular techniques it is right to say that in the spirit, if not in the letter, they would, and were so understood by the Government, apply to all forms of ill-treatment and not just those specifically under question. As I said in my reply, we are concerned about the continuing ill-treatment as disclosed in the Bennett Report and we are maintaining the most active contacts in the case.

Does the Minister accept that the failure to implement the Ó Briain Report is to some extent tying the hands of the Government in this matter and diminishing the credibility of the Government in making representations in relation to the matters dealt with in the Bennett Report?

I do not so accept. The Deputy will appreciate that our Garda enjoy the support of our people and any implication that they do not enjoy the support of the people, although the Deputy does not intend that, is very dangerous. The other questions are for another Minister.

Arising out of——

The Deputy said he was asking his final question.

——the unsatisfactory reply, I want to make it clear that there is no question of the Garda not enjoying the support of our people. With respect, the Minister seemed to evade the point I made. Does he not accept that the fact that we have not implemented the Ó Briain report is, to some extent, damaging our credibility in making complaints and representations arising out of the dreadful occurrences in Castlereagh and elsewhere?

I do not accept that. I have responsibility to make representations on matters of international relations. I felt in no way inhibited and have pursued my representations on the lines I indicated.

I cannot accept that.

Since it is evident from the Bennett report and the supporting evidence of the two doctors, Irwin and Elliot, that there is a breach of the undertaking given before the European Court, we must be hypocritical in our attitude when we continue to deal with these people and co-operate with them. Surely we should make a protest, other than a verbal protest, to show that we will not tolerate it and that the European Court's decisions cannot be flouted?

I am sure the Deputy will agree that we should try to bring about a situation where the security forces in the North, as here, have the support of the majority of the people they are there to protect against violence. We intend to co-operate as much as possible to bring about that situation.

Is the Minister serious when he compares the two, despite all the faults there might be in our own security forces? Surely he is not serious in comparing the two security forces as if they were one and the same, protecting the rights of all? For God's sake wake up.

I want to say quite clearly that I do not believe in the principle of universal condemnation because——

I do not either.

The Deputy appears to be adopting that principle.

I would not compare the Northern security forces with our own.

I did not compare them in any sense because the same principles apply in the North as here.

It is scandalous to compare them with our own.

Question No. 8.