asked the Minister for Education the total capital cost of all community schools constructed to date; the date of construction of the earliest such school; the number of religious orders involved in the management of such schools; the percentage of the capital expenditure involved, envisaged in the draft deed of trust, as the responsibility of the religious orders concerned; the total financial contribution outstanding from the religious orders concerned on the basis of the percentage figure contained in the draft deed of trust; and if so, when the request for such payments has been made.

9.

asked the Minister for Education if any moneys, representing a proportion of the capital costs concerned, have been paid by any religious order in respect of any community school in which they are involved; the amount of any such contribution and the identity of the religious order concerned; and the date of payment.

With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 8 and 9 together.

As I have told the House on a number of occasions recently the negotiations regarding the deed of trust for community schools are still in progress. I would not, accordingly, consider it appropriate at this stage to enter into detail in relation to specific provisions of the proposed deed, including the financial provisions. I shall be making a full statement in this matter in due course.

The total capital cost of community schools constructed to date amounts to £17.2 million.

The first school building was completed in 1974. The particulars of the religious orders involved in the management of individual schools are set out in a tabular statement, which with the permission of the Ceann Comhairle will be circulated with the Official Report.

Religious Orders involved in the management of individual schools are as follows:

In the context of public accountability would the Minister agree that it is extraordinary that there should be incurred expenditure of some £17,500,000 without any indication to the House at this stage as to the relevant proportions to be paid by contributors and that negotiations should still be in train concerning the proportional contributions, bearing in mind that we are talking about a figure of the order of £20 million by the end of this year while this House is unaware so far of the termination of any of the negotiations?

I would agree that the negotiations have been in progress for a long time, but as I have stated in my reply I hope to bring them to a conclusion in the very near future. The other two sources of revenue that have been mentioned from the beginning are the religious orders and the vocational education committees. We hope to be in a position to finalise the deed of trust in the very near future.

Would the Minister not agree that the various vocational education committees have not been under any illusion as to the amounts they will be required to pay and that in regard to the other arrangements made there seems to be a great deal of unawareness, to say the least, that the Dáil Committee on Public Accounts may have very considerable views to express in relation to what can be described only as the extraordinary negotiations on the part of the Department with the interests concerned?

The Deputy is aware that the interests concerned include the Department, the vocational education committees and individual religious orders. I do not think there is any illusion about the amounts of money involved either from the point of view of the vocational education committees or of the religious orders.

In the light of the clear arrangements that were entered into by the parties concerned is there any possibility of getting the money from them in consideration of the finality of the deed of trust?

I intend to get the money from the interests concerned. Some of the schools are functioning and I am sure the Deputy will agree when I say that the venture is well worth while. I am convinced that a suitable arrangement both in terms of finance and of the other provisions concerned in relation to the deed of trust will be reached in the very near future.

Will that be before September?

Has any proportion of the capital expenditure to be met by the religious orders been published by or on behalf of the Department or is the information being kept strictly secret between all the parties concerned?

Without wishing to be discourteous to the Deputy or to the House I repeat that I would not consider it appropriate at this final stage in the negotiations to mention either financial or other provisions.

In the event of the Minister not being able to give this information to the House would he agree that it should not be communicated to anyone else before it is possible to give it to the House?

There might be a problem in that regard in that the House might be in recess when the announcement can be made.

I appreciate that possibility, but my point is that the information should not be given to anybody else before it is given to the House, assuming the House is in session.