asked the Minister for Justice the average (a) basic; (b) overtime working hours of full-time prison officers in Mountjoy prison.

4.

asked the Minister for Justice if he is satisfied with the overtime arrangements presently in operation in Mountjoy prison.

With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 3 and 4 together.

Prison officers are required to work a 40-hour week before qualifying for overtime. The average overtime per week during the month of May was 16 hours per officer. I am satisfied that the governor allocates overtime work in a fair and responsible manner.

Is overtime compulsory or optional?

It is not compulsory. I understand that if officers are asked to work overtime in addition to the 40-hour week they generally comply with the request.

Is it obligatory or not?

There is no absolute obligation on prison officers to work overtime but generally they are anxious to do so.

My information is that prison officers are forced to work overtime.

This is information.

I am asking the Minister to investigate this. I have been told that prison officers who can no longer stick the pace have to go sick in order to get a day off.

I will have the matter investigated as suggested. Prison officers work what might be described as an inordinate amount of overtime and sometimes this strains their personal health and well-being. A submission is being sent to the Department of the Public Service by the Department of Justice seeking the creation of a considerable number of new posts to service new security needs and to reduce hardship caused to prison officers.

Could the Minister say when it is hoped to recruit additional officers?

While not in any way shifting the blame to the Department of the Public Service, all we are doing is waiting for sanction to recruit a considerable number of new staff.

I take it the Department recognise the unsatisfactory conditions and are doing something about the matter.

The Department are aware of the problems in relation to the working of overtime by prison officers and are doing something about it.

It applies not just to Mountjoy but also to Portlaoise.

The questions were specifically related to Mountjoy.

5.

asked the Minister for Justice if he is satisfied with the prisoner-officer ratio in Mountjoy Prison and if he will make a statement on the matter.

Mountjoy Prison has a total serving staff of 303 and there are about 450 prisoners in the prison.

Having regard to the demands being made on the other establishments manned by the prison service I am satisfied that Mountjoy has received its fair share of available staff resources. I might point out that the number of prison staff in Mountjoy Prison and elsewhere has been increased substantially in recent years and the position is still under review. Thus on 1 July 1977 the number of serving staff in Mountjoy was 239 and the number of prisoners 378.

This is not to say I agree that the prisoner to prison officer ratio is necessarily the criterion or that I am satisfied that present staffing in the prison generally is sufficient. However, prison staff has increased by some 40 per cent in the past two years from approximately 800 on 1 April 1977 to over 1,100 on 1 April 1979. There is a limit to how quickly it is possible to find suitable additional staff and to recruit and train them and I believe that the rate of intake has been as high as is feasible in the period in question. In very recent months the postal strike has caused special difficulties.

Do I take it 303 prison officers will control 450 prisoners?

Yes.

Is the Minister aware that if you break that down to a 40-hour week it is one to every eight approximately?

I will leave the mathematical permutations to the Deputy.

It is a quick calculation.

I am not very good at maths on my feet.

Does the Minister want to contradict me?

Question No. 6.

Arising out of the Minister's reply to Questions Nos. 3 and 4, is he anxious to increase the number of prison officers?

We are as anxious as the Deputy.

6.

asked the Minister for Justice the equipment supplied to Mountjoy prison officers on night patrol duty from 8 p.m. to 8 a.m.

Night patrol is from 9.15 p.m. to 8.15 a.m. During the night prisoners are normally in their cells. If for any reason prisoners are not in their cells during any part of the period extra staff come on duty. The question of what special equipment, if any, is supplied to officers on night patrol either as a matter of course or on special occasions is a matter affecting security and is confidential. I cannot, therefore, agree to disclose any information about it or to comment.

I am told that, while prison officers are working in the grounds of the prison, they are completely out of touch with the prison, and the only equipment they have is a tin whistle and in many cases it is 20 or 30 years' old.

I do not know who the Deputy's informer is, for want of a better word. I do not think the age of the tin whistle has any relevance if it works. I can assure the Deputy that, in addition to an out-of-date tin whistle, as he describes it, modern penology and modern prison accommodation demand modern technology. He can be certain that the Minister and the Department of Justice are aware of the need for matters other than tin whistles of whatever age in relation to security.

I have every sympathy with the Minister in trying to defend a system which has nothing better to offer than a tin whistle. Does he consider it right that in modern society in a high security prison the efficiency of the staff is left to the working of a tin whistle, whether or not the pea works?

The answer to that question is no.

Does the Minister seriously suggest that security can be properly attended to——

As I have already pointed out, matters affecting security in Mountjoy Prison and other prisons are confidential. He can take my word and the word of the Minister of Justice that security does not depend on the working or otherwise of an out-of-date tin whistle.

I am talking about the officers who are on night duty in a particular part of the prison.

They are adequately prepared for any eventuality which may arise.