asked the Minister for Economic Planning and Development if he is in a position to report on the likely support among employers and unions for the 7 per cent pay guideline and if any statutory back-up for the guideline is envisaged.

The Government's interim pay arrangements were explained in detail to representatives of the employers and the Irish Congress of Trade Unions at meetings which were attended by the Taoiseach and other Ministers on 19 June. Having regard to the deterioration in the international economic climate, mainly as a result of the reduced supply and increased cost of oil, the Government would expect the support of all sections of the community to ensure that the interim arrangements can be applied throughout the economy. Apart from existing statutory provisions, such as those in the area of price control, which are open to the Government to use, no additional statutory back-up is envisaged for the pay guideline.

20.

asked the Minister for Economic Planning and Development if the non-pay elements in the recent national understanding package can be incorporated in any new pay agreement reached between employers and unions; and if the Government supports a joint employer/union agreement on pay.

The Taoiseach and other Ministers met with representatives of the employers and the Irish Congress of Trade Unions on 28 June to discuss proposals which had been put forward by the two parties for a reinstatement of the non-pay elements of the national understanding together with revised proposals on the understanding's original pay provisions. The employer and ICTU representatives were informed that the Government will agree to implement the terms of the understanding, including the pay terms, provided the new package is ratified by both parties.

The Government have consistently made it known that they would favour a consensus approach, involving employers and the ICTU, to deal with the economic and social issues which are set out in the national understanding. The more unsettled economic climate which has been developing in recent months makes the adoption of such an approach all the more urgent and important.

Can I take it there is an undertaking that, if the revised pay arrangements are agreed between the employers and the trade unions, the non-pay elements of the original national understanding will come into force?

Yes.

Arising from the Minister's reference to revised pay proposals, can he confirm that the statement on radio the other day by a prominent trade union leader that this would be likely to give rise to 20 per cent increases in pay rates is correct? What would the Minister estimate what the increase in earnings will be, allowing for drift?

That is a separate question.

I have not heard the remarks to which the Deputy refers so I cannot offer any detailed comments, but I do not see how anyone could arrive at increases of 20 per cent in pay rates because, on an annualised basis, the terms of the proposed pay arrangements suggest increases in the region of 13-13½ per cent.

I appreciate the Minister may not have heard the remarks made by Mr. Carroll of the ITGWU but he gave figures for different levels of pay, and for most of those levels, up to about £100 a week, the increases would be 20 per cent or slightly higher because of provision for indexation. If that is the case what increase in earnings would be likely to arise, allowing for drifting?

It seems that there must have been some built-in assumption about the likely rate of inflation.

Perhaps a realistic one instead of the kind the Minister is introducing.

There are questions which will touch on the inflation rate. If the Deputy wants to debate the realism we will take it at that point.