asked the Minister for Energy the plans, if any, to promote the development of turf both for industrial and domestic usage.

6.

asked the Minister for Energy if he will introduce a special scheme of assistance for re-opening of bogs to facilitate increased production of turf.

7.

asked the Minister for Energy if he has satisfied himself with the use being made of bogland in this country in view of the high ratios of bog to land area and the plans, if any, for the further immediate development of bogs as part of an energy programme.

With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 5, 6 and 7 together.

I am informed by Bord na Móna that there are about 60,000 acres of bogland in course of development at present by the board. This is an increase of almost 50 per cent on the area already in production. The total of approximately 200,000 acres now acquired or in course of acquisition by the board includes all the large bog areas in the midlands and many other smaller bogs. The board's third development programme provides for the production of an additional 2.75 million tonnes of milled peat to be used for electricity generation and the manufacture of briquettes in two new briquette factories; an additional 32,000 tonnes of sod peat and 650,000 cubic metres of moss peat. This represents an increase of about 75 per cent on current production. Bord na Móna are continuously reviewing their development plans in the light of data available from their surveys with a view to including all bogland which can be developed for fuel production on an economically viable basis. Virtually all such bogland has already been identified. Most of the remaining bog area is comprised of shallow bog in the western part of the country where unfavourable conditions such as peat depth, terrain and climate militate against peat production on a commercial scale.

I understand that the Central Development Committee have initiated an investigation into the problems of turf production in the west and that the investigation is expected to be completed shortly.

I also understand that the National Board for Science and Technology have applied to the EEC for aid towards a project to develop peat harvesting machinery for use on smaller bogs where at present harvesting is unmechanised and costly.

Do I understand from the reply that the board have about 200,000 acres and have 50,000 acres in production?

That is not quite right, although I understand how the Deputy may have got that impression. It is 60,000 acres in course of development and 200,000 acres now acquired or in course of acquisition. The Deputy will understand that the major portion on which Bord na Móna are and have been working is not included in either of those figures because one is in course of development and the other in course of acquisition.

Has the Minister any information as to the number of acres of other bogland which according to the criteria he has mentioned would be commercially exploitable other than what is in production or in course of development or in the ownership of or being acquired by the board? Has the Minister any idea of the extent of what is left which could be commercially exploited?

That is a separate question.

The Deputy may take it that, apart from what has been identified by Bord na Móna, the remaining bogland is not capable of commercial development from the point of view of Bord na Móna. What is outstanding may well be commercially viable with the aid of new machinery, which I referred to in my reply and for which aid is being sought from the EEC—light machinery suitable for use on small and heretofore uneconomic bogland. If that can be developed, and I believe it can, then a number of bogs which at present would be regarded as non-commercial will become commercial.

I am puzzled by the word "identification". We spoke of the bogland that is in production, in course of development and in course of acquisition or already acquired. The Minister now talks about bogland that has been identified as possibly being capable of commercial production by the board but which has not been acquired by them or is not in course of acquisition. Can he give any idea as to the extent of that, what sort of acreage is involved——

The Deputy should put down a separate question.

Sorry, the very point of the question is whether the Minister is satisfied with the present use and whether there are any plans for further development. If we talk about further development with identifying——

The Deputy is asking about the quantity or area of bogland outside of what Bord na Móna are involved in. That is a separate question.

The reply spoke of bogland which, according to the Minister, the board have identified as being capable of——

That is his own affair.

But if the Minister has the figure——

No, I do not have it.

Does the Minister know if Bord na Móna see themselves as having any role in the exploitation of cut-away bog through growing biomass crops?

Deputy Kelly might appreciate that that also is a separate question.

I do not want to argue with you but it seems to arise out of Question No. 7 in which Deputy O'Keeffe asked the Minister about the development of bogs as part of an energy programme.

The Deputy is dealing with cut-away bogs.

It is bog on which there is still a thin blanket of decayed vegetable matter.

The Chair understands that the question relates to the development of bogs.

It says bogland and that can be either cut-away bogs or——

A bogland which is cut away still belongs to Bord na Móna and presumably they must have some plans for it although I must admit that the report of the inter-departmental committee——

This question relates to the energy programme.

——makes very thin reading after five years. It is eight pages. I do not know if the Minister has had time to catch up with it yet. Do Bord na Móna see themselves as having any role in this regard?

Yes, they do.

Have the Minister's Department any plans to make funds available for the development of bogs, particularly in the western area?

I have given the overall figures in regard to Bord na Móna. I am not quite sure what the Deputy has in mind. The information I have given includes some areas in the west. Perhaps the Deputy has something in mind which he could clarify.

The Irish Sugar Company cut turf in 70 bogs in the western region at the moment and they use 15 machines. They cut a total of 700,000 yards of turf per year. Approximately the same amount of turf is cut by people with private machines. The vast majority of those bogs now need drainage and roads. It is necessary to make funds available for drainage and road making in those bogs.

And the drainage of the Shannon.

Do not mind the Shannon. Could we talk about the bogs first?

The Deputy might put down a separate question.

I will not put down a separate question. This question is very relevant.

A Bill is coming before the House in relation to turf development and the Deputy will have an opportunity of discussing all those matters. The Deputy is anticipating it.

I am not anticipating anything. I deserve an answer from the Minister. I am talking particularly about the western region. The only schemes available at the moment to either drain bogs or to make roads into bogs are grants available to the local authorities. The amount of money spent annually in that area is very small. I want the Minister to provide grants for the development of bogs.

Apart from a scheme administered by my Department which is confined to the development and maintenance of roads for access to bogs, which are supplying turf to certain ESB generating stations, my Department do not have any function in this matter. The Deputy has referred to the fact that local authorities receive money from the Department of the Environment under broad headings which enable them to provide money for the purpose he suggests. Considerable extra money was provided under this heading last year but few, if any, local authorities provided any money for the purpose suggested by the Deputy. The local authorities, having received extra money, could have chosen if they wished, to devote it to the purpose now recommended by the Deputy. They chose instead to devote it to other purposes. That suggests that the local authorities do not regard this matter as one of top priority.

Surely the Minister must be aware that the amount of money being allocated to local authorities——

We cannot debate this matter any further. We are getting very involved now.

Surely the Minister must be aware that the amount of money allocated to local authorities in relation to inflation is getting less and less? The amount of money allocated for local improvement schemes in County Galway in 1978 was £162,000. In 1977 it was £153,000. There is no great increase in that.

The Deputy may not quote at Question Time. I have pointed out already that there is a Bill dealing entirely with Bord na Móna actually ordered and the Deputy will have an opportunity of discussing all those matters.

I certainly will. The Minister either does not know what I am talking about or he does not answer the question I am asking.

I know that in respect of the scheme to which the Deputy is referring, £1 million extra was provided last year. I know that local authorities did not choose to use it for the purpose of bog roads.

The Minister has got it totally wrong.

The Deputy has got it totally wrong because inevitably people who want to do what the Deputy wants to do also want the Government to provide additional money for that while they spend it on other things which they regard as of a greater priority. They are entitled to that view but if one chooses priorities one has got to live with them.

Is the Minister aware that the average cost of heating a home in 1973 was £80 and today it is £650? In view of that would he not agree with me that it is necessary to make grants available for bog development?

Surely the Deputy does not expect the Minister for Energy to be the only one who decides on energy being a priority? Other people have a responsibility in this as well.

Does the Minister intend to give grants for turf-cutting machines for private individuals?

That is a separate question.