asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs if an assessment has now been made of the benefit of the Irish bilateral aid programme to the Irish economy in terms of the procurement of Irish goods and services by recipient countries.

22.

asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs if his Department have assessed, or are in the process of assessing, or is prepared to assess, the real net cost to Ireland of overseas development aid having regard to returns of moneys to this country by way of commercial contracts for salaries to Irish personnel involved in multilateral or bilateral aid programmes.

: With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 21 and 22 together.

The objective of the bilateral aid programme is to channel resources in the most effective way possible to the poorer countries of the developing world and the poorer populations in them. Our approach has been to try to identify with the priority countries potential areas of co-operation. We have been concerned that the projects which are developed are seriously needed by these countries and are regarded as priorities by them. At this stage of our involvement it would seem to be preferable to allocate all available resources to improving the effectiveness of these aid projects in which we are involved rather than to examining the spin-off benefits to Ireland.

Contacts established with developing countries through the Official Development Assistance Programme can result in certain commercial advantages and opportunities. However, it would be very difficult to identify precisely the benefits which accrue from development work undertaken by an Irish body since in many cases projects are parts of larger schemes undertaken or financed by other donor countries or agencies.

An assessment of the nature suggested by the Deputy's two questions would be extremely complex and time-consuming. Moreover, it would be impossible to ensure that it was comprehensive. I would refer the Deputy also to information given in reply to Question No. 432 on 20 February 1980 with regard to payments to Irish bodies involved in projects under the bilateral aid programme.

: In relation to Question No. 22, is any assessment being made either by the Department or by any of the voluntary agencies, or will the Minister facilitate such a process? Will the Minister also accept in principle that once a measure of this return benefit of the development aid programme to Ireland has been assessed, it should be discounted from the total aid given in the first place when we are measuring how much aid we are actually giving to the Third World countries?

: I do not see why we should circumscribe ourselves in the manner suggested by the Deputy.

: Will the Minister agree that, if we stand up and make an attempt to meet our commitments to the Third World and offer aid the bulk of which in reality benefits us, we are not in reality helping the Third World countries at all and that we should at least discount a substantial if not a 100 per cent portion of it and increase it accordingly?

: It does not work out that way. We have tried to identify priority areas in the recipient countries where we can help in co-operation. We do not apply the commercial type criteria that the Deputy mentions. Inevitably there is some spin-off benefit but we do not look at the programme in that way.

: Since we do not know the extent to which we are benefiting from the bilateral aid programme will the Minister initiate a process to get a measure of the benefit?

: It is better to approach this matter in a pragmatic way on the ground after discussion with the recipient countries and to decide on the best way in which we can help. Sometimes there is a spin-off benefit and sometimes not, but our main criteria in assessing the project is how best we can help within the resources available.

: Is the Minister aware that an estimate has been made of the extent to which this aid benefits us and, while accepting that the primary motivation in the bulk of our aid is not that it should produce returns to this country, the fact remains that a great part of it does and that, in determining how much aid we should give, an account should be taken of the fact that the net cost to this country is so very small in view of the return we receive?

: We can have a sensible discussion on this.

: We will not have a sensible discussion on it now. This is the final question.

: I disagree with the Deputy in that respect. I do not see why we should tie ourselves unnecessarily. We discuss the project on the ground, we make a sensible decision with the recipient country and we decide to co-operate. If there is a spin-off benefit well and good, but that is not our primary motivation.

: The remaining questions will appear on tomorrow's Order Paper.