asked the Minister for Energy the latest position in regard to wind-power experiments.

4.

asked the Minister for Energy if he will make a statement, giving if possible an interim indication, of the results of the research so far conducted in this country on the possibilities of generating significant quantities of electricity by wind-power.

: With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle I propose to take Questions Nos. 3 and 4 together.

At the end of last March after some consideration of the state of technology and the possibilities that existed I asked the NBST to prepare possible outline demonstration projects to harness wind energy. I identified four projects types:

(1) a coastal-mountain project,

(2) a midland location project,

(3) an island project and

(4) a wind energy machine linked to an agricultural co-operative or small rural industry.

I have received from the NBST a proposal which indicates as far as possible with regard to each project, the appropriate technology, the likely agency of implementation, the estimated budget and the time frame within which the various projects can be launched. The ESB will shortly place orders for three wind generators and An Foras Talúntais has erected a machine at their station in Kinsealy. A firm of consulting engineers have been engaged by my Department to select and install a machine on Inis Oirr to supplement the diesel generated electrical supply on that island. Work is well advanced to select the sites and types of wind generators necessary for the other demonstration projects.

These projects are only part of a broader programme which I am preparing aimed at assessing the potential contribution of wind energy. I have recently appointed a steering committee which has the help of a full time technical officer to develop the national wind-power programme, initiate the demonstration projects already announced and to establish contacts with agencies and companies at home and abroad who can assist us in the wind-power programme. I am anxious to ensure that in the event of the success of the pilot or demonstration programme possibilities for the industrial manufacture of wind machines in Ireland will be pursued.

A study was completed in 1979 by a group from Trinity College on the potential of wind-power for large scale electricity generation. The study concluded that several hundred megawatts of capacity could be added to the national grid without a need for storage. Of course the large scale wind generators required are still being developed and are not yet commercially proven.

: In the investigations that have been going on in recent times has any specific cognisance been taken or has there been any examination of the fact that Denmark are already operating machines of a large nature?

: The Deputy can rest assured that any information on work in European countries has been made available to our people and has been taken into account. He will appreciate that conditions are somewhat different in Ireland, particularly on the west coast, from what would normally be encountered in Denmark. The technical problems that would have to be dealt with are somewhat different. In so far as the design work and so on done in Denmark can be of assistance to us it is being taken into account.

: Would the Minister refute the suggestion that people engaged on his behalf and on behalf of State agencies in investigating wind machines, of which the most advanced are in Denmark, have been denied the necessary small amount of finance required to enable them to go there and do an in-depth study?

: I am not aware of such an allegation.

: In the light of the extreme urgency of our energy situation and the increasing burden which oil imports are placing on our tottering economy would the Minister not agree that there is a slight suggestion of a snail's pace about the wind programme? I know the Minister's heart is in the right place but it is about seven months since he first said anything about Inis Oirr. It is only now that arrangements are being made to buy land on which to site this plant.

: The Deputy's understanding of that is not correct. I agree that anything that can be done to speed up this programme should be done. I hope that I communicated to those concerned, if they did not have it already, a sense of urgency about this task. On the other hand, it would be unrealistic not to recognise, firstly, that a good deal of work in that area is and must be experimental, because the whole technology is relatively new. People may say that we have had windmills for hundreds of years but we have not had for hundreds of years windmills generating electricity. A good deal of new technology is being applied to this in various parts of the world but conditions obtaining in this country are different from those in other parts of the world where this sort of work is done. Generator designs used successfully in other parts of the world have resulted when used around our coast in wind-generators being damaged seriously by the wind. They were not geared to our conditions. It is important that any work we do on this takes account of our own conditions and does not result in collapse of the whole operation. Therefore, it is necessary to spend some time testing and measuring wind velocities and gusts and trying to ensure that the design applied is suitable to the conditions encountered off our coast.

: I am not entirely happy with the reply but I cannot think of another question to ask the Minister arising out of it. Yes, I have another question. Has he in his wind programme any element of multiplying wind generators and wind intermittency? If the wind would not be in one place there is a good chance it still may be blowing in another, so that his wind programme could be spread around the country so as to take advantage of that fact.

: This is being taken into consideration and, the Deputy is right, really it has to be taken into consideration. It is one of the purposes of measuring the velocities and gusts which are encountered at different times of the year.