asked the Minister for Energy whether he has given, or will give, consideration to the introduction of a scheme of realistic grants or loans to encourage proper insulation in both commercial and domestic buildings.

I refer the Deputy to my reply to his question on 4 December 1980 in which I gave details of the grants which are available for the insulation of domestic dwellings. So far, about 2,000 grants have been paid out and applications are at present being received at a rate of about 450 a week. My Department do not administer a grant or loan scheme for the commercial sector. I do not propose at this time to introduce insulation grants or loans for this sector nor to introduce loans for insulating domestic buildings.

I would also like to draw attention to the fact that under a residence-related employment scheme, income tax relief is given in certain cases on the labour content of household improvements, including insulation and other conservation measures, subject to a maximum labour cost of £450 (£900 in the case of a married couple), the first £50 being payable by the householder.

Is it the case that practically every European country offers assistance in the form of grants, loans or tax relief to firms for the improvement of insulation and other energy conservation measures in their premises, and is the Minister, not, therefore out of step with Europe in not proposing to do something on these lines?

I do not think so. The Deputy will appreciate that expenditure of this kind by a business would be allowable for tax purposes. The allowance to which I referred is the tax allowance.

Is there no allowance for energy conservation?

No. The Deputy will appreciate that the potential returns for investment by a business in energy conservation are so great that really there is not all that need for incentives at the moment.

The Minister is looking for votes in that.

Would the Minister agree that the case for State assistance in a case like this is that, while the returns are substantial they may be over a very long time and, therefore, there may be justification for State intervention to get the initial interest?

I would agree with the Deputy if that were so. I did not advert to it because I did not want to develop it too much. Although I have said the returns are very substantial, one of the features of the returns is that the payback period is so short compared with other kinds of investments. While I am not ruling it out permanently, as I have indicated, I do not contemplate it at this time.