asked the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs the number of applications for telephone service in the Dublin area outstanding at the end of 1980.

About 40,000.

Would the Minister give us the comparable figures for 1978 and 1979?

I will do so if the Deputy puts down a question.

21.

asked the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs the total number of new telephones installed in the Dublin area in 1980; and the number of new installations planned for 1981.

About 24,500 and 35,000 respectively.

The Minister mistook what I asked. I wish to know the number of applications for telephone service outstanding in the Dublin area, apart from 1980 which is given as 40,000. I would like the figures for 1979 and 1978.

It was around 15,500 at that time. Of course there is a continuing demand.

It is getting worse.

It is not. Applications are rising daily.

Deputy Brady, please.

It is all because of the fact that we put our money where our mouth was.

A hell of a big mouth.

It was borrowed money.

Will Deputy White allow Deputy Brady to ask a supplementary question.

The Department should be congratulated on reaching the Minister's targets but when does the Minister anticipate that the people on the present waiting list will receive service?

At the pace we are moving in Dublin we hope that by 1984 we will be able to offer telephone service on demand.

I wish to clarify the Minister's previous reply. The Minister mentioned a figure of 15,500. Is that the number of applications outstanding at the end of 1979?

Yes.

Therefore, during 1980 the number outstanding increased by 24,500 or by 150 per cent.

No, the applications are continuously coming in.

The backlog increased by well over 150 per cent.

No, the Deputy has got it wrong.

Could the Minister perhaps explain the position because he just told me that the figure was 15,500 at the end of 1979. In view of the fact that there were 40,000 at the end of 1980 that is an increase——

At the beginning of 1980 there were 44,631 people on the waiting list for telephones. We installed 24,500. In the normal course of events about 5 to 10 per cent of the people who originally made application do not take the service when offered. Taking that into account plus the fact that through 1980 other people made applications for telephone service and they are getting it too, the increase in Dublin is tremendous.

Is it quite clear that the Minister has said that at the end of 1979 15,500 applications were outstanding——

No.

The Minister repeated that twice.

I did not say that.

The Minister said it twice.

I think the Deputy is a bit confused.

The Minister is confusing me.

I heard also that the Deputy was confused in west Cork during the weekend where he was holding the same deputation twice.

I asked a Question to clarify the Minister's original reply and the Minister confirmed specifically that the backlog for 1979 was 15,500. If that is not so, what does the figure 15,500 relate to?

That relates to 1980, not 1979. In 1980 the figure on the waiting list was 44,631. I then proceeded to tell the Deputy that when people are offered a telephone service, about 5 per cent of them refuse it.

What is the comparable figure in 1979?

What is the figure of 15,500?

In 1979 there were 35,366.

What?

Waiting applicants. Is that what the Deputy is asking about?

I see, so there is an increase of 11,000 in the waiting list but what does the figure of 15,500 relate to?

And there may be an increase in the waiting list at the end of this year as well, despite the fact that we put in 25,000 telephones last year.

We cannot have a debate on this.

The Minister used the figure of 15,500. What does that figure relate to?

I know what is wrong with Deputy FitzGerald—he is amazed at the fact that we are capable of giving the service that we said we would give——

Question No. 22.

——and he cannot digest it.

What does the figure of 15,500 relate to? Is the Minister afraid to answer.

The Minister is not afraid to answer any questions concerning the Department of Posts and Telegraphs if the Deputy could clarify his mind as to what he wishes to ask.

Question No. 22.

I seek the protection of the Chair. The Minister mentioned 15,500 and he has repeatedly refused to say what that figure relates to or to clarify his reply.

It relates to the waiting list.

When?

At the end of 1980.

The Minister told us that it was 44,500 at the end of 1980.

Of which I said 24,500 were taken away from it because we installed 24,500 telephones in Dublin city last year. Does the Deputy understand it now?

No.

Well, I am sorry for the Deputy.

All I understand is that there was an increase of 11,000 in 1980 and that there is a figure of 15,500 somewhere and the Minister is not prepared——

I cannot allow a debate to continue.

By 1984 we will be able to offer telephone service to the people in Dublin on demand.

Think of a number and subtract your first thoughts away from it.

The Minister is like a walking fog.

22.