asked the Minister for Social Welfare if, in view of the availability of EEC funds, he will initiate a nationwide scheme to provide milk in schools; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

21.

asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he intends to introduce the EEC scheme to subsidise milk for distribution to primary schools.

With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 20 and 21 together.

The EEC Council decided in 1977 to make funds available for the supply of milk and certain milk products to school children at reduced prices for a period of at least five years. The funds provided under this arrangement have been availed of since then in respect of milk and cheese supplied under the existing school meals scheme. Of the 89 urban local authorities entitled to operate schemes 44 do so and of these 26 supply milk as part of the meal.

A special scheme is in operation in the Gaeltacht areas but none of the local authorities concerned supplies milk.

The question of introducing a nationwide school milk scheme under the terms of the EEC regulations was examined in 1977 and the Government decided that the scheme on these lines was not suitable for general implementation in this country.

To introduce such a scheme now would involve increased expenditure of about £5.4 million annually from the Exchequer and there would, of course, be enormous administrative problems.

The position will be re-examined, however, to see whether it would be feasible to operate a free milk scheme in particular circumstances where there may be a demand for such a scheme.

Would the Minister not agree that certainly in the winter months there is a need for a nationwide scheme? It is unfortunate that only half of the urban authorities referred to by the Minister have even a partial scheme. Would he not agree that it is important that all the local authorities, especially in relation to primary schools, would establish a scheme to ensure that young children who have to travel many miles to school by bus on winter mornings should have the benefit of such a scheme?

I am certainly prepared to have this matter re-examined. The Deputy is aware that the co-operation of the local authorities and, indeed, of the schools, is required. If it is feasible to operate a free milk scheme in particular circumstances, where there is a demand then we will have that matter examined.

Is the Minister aware — and I am sure he is — that under this scheme half-a-pint of milk could be supplied each day to primary school pupils throughout the country at a cost of about 1p per week per pupil? Is he saying that he is prepared to examine this? Has he not examined it since 1977? The money is there from EEC funds to pay for this scheme. I am assuming that that is correct. Is the Minister saying that he is now prepared to consider and investigate it? Has he not done so previously?

This study was undertaken and the various people involved were consulted and at that stage it was not seen as feasible——

Why not?

——or desirable to introduce that scheme. It is fairly obvious from the figures that only half the local authorities presently operate the scheme that exists at the moment, as Deputy Collins has pointed out. In addition, the schools have to undertake administrative arrangements. Certainly, I have an open mind and I am prepared to look at the whole matter in circumstances where it may be seen as desirable or necessary.

Would the Minister not agree that Bord Bainne are very neglectful in not ensuring that milk and milk products are available to all the young children in our schools? Have any representations been made to him by Bord Bainne to ensure that such a system would be established?

I am not personally aware of any but it is an interesting point. There might be some way of dealing with the administrative arrangement through particular forms of packaging and so on. I will certainly look into that matter.

It would appear that Bord Bainne have been extremely neglectful in not trying to ensure that such a nationwide scheme is available.

The Minister said that this matter was investigated with the various interested parties concerned and that it was found not to be desirable to introduce this scheme. That was one phrase the Minister used. Why is it not desirable, especially during the winter months, to have free milk available to our pupils in rural areas as well as where this is being done? We are advertising milk and agriculturally as well as socially and economically, it is important that this milk scheme be utilised. It is there to be used, particularly by us as a milk producing country.

I would ask the Deputy is the scheme in operation currently in County Kildare?

No.

Then perhaps the Deputy could tell me more about the difficulties in that respect——

You are the Minister concerned.

——in connection with the local authorities concerned. If only half the local authorities are using the existing scheme——

What about the Minister's colleague sitting beside him?

They have hot tea in our schools; why do they not do that in your area?

We are not going to have a debate on this subject. A question, please.

Did the Minister do anything over the last period of his office to see that this scheme was introduced.? Apparently the answer is no.

I have given an extensive reply to the Deputy.

The Minister has not answered the question.

A final supplementary from Deputy Harte, please.

Would the Minister not——

No, I am sorry, Deputy. A final supplementary from Deputy Harte. If Deputy Harte does not ask his question I shall proceed to the next question.

There is money available from the EEC since 1977 which this country could have used for the benefit of young children's health. The Minister is Minister for Health.

The Deputy should put down such a question.

Could I ask one supplementary question?

Sorry, a final supplementary from Deputy Harte. This is turning into a debate.

The Minister is avoiding the issue.

Can the Deputy not put down a question like anybody else? The Chair should either be fair or not.

In view of the benefit which this scheme can provide for young children, would the Minister for Health not consider giving a directive to the local authorities to implement the scheme? Forget about the prompts from Deputy Power, the Minister for Fisheries and Forestry.

I an not in a position to do that. I cannot direct the individual local authorities.

Could I ask one final supplementary?

I will give Deputy Bermingham one final supplementary.

The local authorities do not administer the EEC scheme; the Minister does. He is avoiding his responsibility.

Would Deputy Collins please resume his seat?

Why does the Minister not act positively?

Would the Deputy permit Deputy Bermingham to ask a supplementary question?

Has the Minister made an attempt at any time either to introduce the scheme himself or to have it done through the local authorities?

He has been discovering Ireland.

As I have said in my reply, we studied the matter and had discussions with the people involved.

In other words, there has not been anything but talk.

The Deputy's board is not implementing the scheme that exists.

Order, please.

Question No. 22 postponed.

23.