asked the Minister for the Environment if he will give details of the new housing grants; and the reason county councils have not been notified of the changes.

11.

asked the Minister for the Environment the steps that he has taken to establish co-operation with each county council and major urban local authority to establish housing information centres; whether these centres will be part of the existing local authority administration or be independent; if they will be confined to local authority housing schemes and State loans; and whether they will have any function in relation to flats and rented accommodation.

12.

asked the Minister for the Environment when he will introduce the necessary legislative and other arrangements for the £4,000 new house grant scheme.

With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 10, 11 and 12 together.

The special mortgage subsidy scheme and the local housing information centres are two elements in a wide-ranging package of housing initiatives which the Minister announced on 10 April 1981. In addition to these elements, the Housing Package 1981 embraces the local authority house purchase and improvement loans schemes, the local authority housing programme, a scheme for financing improvement works to rented local authority houses, tax allowances for the provision of rented residential accommodation, increased financial assistance for voluntary housing bodies, and improvements in certain housing grant schemes. A summary of the main features of the package was set out in a prominent advertisement published in the national daily newspapers on 16 April. An explanatory leaflet on the special mortgage subsidy scheme was also available to the public on that day. A circular letter giving detailed particulars of all aspects of the package issued to local housing authorities and recognised voluntary housing bodies on 8 May 1981. Amending legislation is being prepared to give statutory effect to the special mortgage subsidy scheme from 10 April 1981.

On a point of information, I should like to know which questions the Minister is replying to?

Questions Nos. 10, 11 and 12.

Question No. 11 does not have anything to do with No. 12. Perhaps it is Nos. 10, 12 and 13?

Question No. 11 asks the Minister for the Environment the steps he has taken to establish co-operation with each county council and major urban local authority to establish housing information centres. That certainly is related to the other question. Those questions ask for details of the new housing grant and the reason county councils have not been notified of the changes.

The Minister did not answer the question relating to housing information centres.

The Minister did not make any reference to them at all.

No. 13 also refers to the information centres and I will be replying to that in a moment.

The Minister is confused. Nos. 11 and 13 could be taken together and so also could Nos. 10 and 12. The Minister has not answered the question about housing information centres.

Nos. 10, 11 and 12 are taken together and Question No. 13, which follows, relates to information centres.

As the Minister has said that he has answered No. 11, will he indicate whether those centres will be part of the existing local authority administration or independent? Will they be confined to local authority housing schemes and State loans? Will they have any function in relation to flats and rented accommodation?

They will be part and parcel of the county councils and urban councils concerned. Initially it will be a matter for county or city managers to set up such information centres which will cover all aspects of housing. It will be a matter for the county council or the urban council to provide accommodation.

Does the Minister agree that housing circular BC5/81 simply requested the manager to make available an existing member of the housing section staff to run this centre and that it makes no provision for any additional funds from the already inadequate funds local authorities have under the rates support scheme? How is it proposed to meet the claim set out in the advertisement, published at the public expense in the newspapers, entitled "Housing Package 1981"?

It is a matter for each local authority.

No, it is not. The Government have the money.

Each local authority will finance it.

From what?

From their own resources?

The Government have taken those resources away.

Local authorities do not have any resources.

Local authorities have rates and an income from various other functions. They can use such resources.

They spend most of that on wages and salaries.

Local authorities have rates but the amount by which they can increase them is determined by the Minister. I should like to ask the Minister where under the housing circular I referred to are local authorities given the authority to increase those rates to make provision in 1981, in line with the title of the package, to fund those new centres.

The Deputy knows that there is no provision in that because the matter of the ceiling on rates is considered from year to year. However, there are other sources of income to local authorities.

Like external borrowing?

They get income from rates and the other facilities they provide.

From water rates, which have increased by 125 per cent?

The sale of lost property and things like that?

Parking tickets?

I should like to tell the Deputy, in case there is any misunderstanding about this, that it was never envisaged that small urban authorities would provide this type of service. The circular refers to the larger urban authorities and the county councils. Accommodation will be available and it is only a question of making staff available. It is up to the city or county manager concerned to decide the numbers involved. We are not confining them in any way.

If, as the Minister states, it was never envisaged that small urban authorities would provide this kind of service, I should like to know if a separate housing circular was sent to them.

No, the circular sets out clearly that it refers to the larger urban authorities and not the small ones.

I am aware that the Minister did not prepare the reply and I am not holding him responsible for it.

Did I understand the Minister to say that the advertisement appeared on 17 April?

No, on 16 April.

In that case will the Minister explain why it was that a further period of three weeks elapsed before local authorities were notified of the details of the schemes they were expected to implement and about which they were being besieged in the interim?

I would not consider that three weeks was an undue delay in regard to this matter because local authorities anxious to get information on the scheme could get it over the phone, something they were not reluctant to avail of.

Is the Minister not aware that local authorities could not get any information from the Department? The only information available to them was that contained in the advertisement which appeared in the public press for over a month.

I am not so aware.

The Minister should go and check out what is happening.

13.

asked the Minister for the Environment whether funds will be made available to local authorities in urban areas in order to provide the housing information service recently announced by him.

When the Minister announced details of the Housing Package 1981 on 10 April 1981, he said that the many measures contained in the package illustrated the complexity of housing needs and entitlements. In view of the wide-ranging nature of housing problems generally, I see the necessity for the establishment of local housing information centres at which a comprehensive housing information service would be available to the public at the principal local levels. I consider, however, that the costs of operating the centres, which will provide a service of local benefits should appropriately be met from the local authorities' own resources.

On the other hand, certain elements of the package will result in savings in expenditure financed by local authorities. For example, the low-rise mortgage scheme is being phased out with a consequent saving to local authorities in subsidy payments. Payment of the special mortgage subsidy to eligible applicants will be made by my Department. Similarly, where a local authority decides to pay an annual subsidy to a voluntary housing body providing certain housing accommodation for eligible categories of housing need, half of the subsidy will be recouped by my Department.

Is the Minister saying that he unilaterally announced the provision of a service to be funded by local authorities, which are ostensibly autonomous?

This is information we expect local authorities to give the public on all aspects of housing matters. I consider it a well worthwhile and necessary service. That was why I gave the savings to local authorities which will enable them to provide the service.

I understood the Minister to say he had decided that the local authorities would provide this service and pay for the cost of it, although they did not have any discretion or prior knowledge of the matter. Is the Minister aware that the Minister for the Environment attended a meeting at the turn of the year in Kilkenny of the City and County Managers Association at which the managers of all local authorities impressed upon him the cash crisis they were in at that time and the fact that they did not envisage they would be in a position to continue to maintain the existing services in 1981? In view of that information from the chief executives of local authorities how does the Minister envisage that additional services can be provided and funded?

The housing package of 1981 provides for the replacement of the low-rise mortgage scheme and there will, therefore, be a saving accruing to local authorities in the future because they will not have to pay subsidies to such cases, apart from transitional cases.

That will be in the future, but the information service is for now. The savings will occur in the future but the problem remains.

It is a sort of three-cardtrick.

No.

Was it intended that people in the housing sections of the various local authorities who were telling the public that they did not have any money to loan them under the ordinary SDA and low-rise mortgage schemes up to now would be switched to a new Department to tell the public the same thing? Is that the idea behind the arrangement? The next question refers to the low-rise mortgage scheme and I should like to know if the Minister will try to justify the virtual abolition of the low-rise mortgage scheme which was put in to assist those who were on a very low income, and now appears to be there to substitute it to pay money to people, many of whom could very well pay the full interest on the loan.

I want to make it quite clear that the staffing of the information centres mentioned here is and will be entirely a matter for the city or county manager concerned.

Ceist 14. We have had enough supplementaries on this.

Could we have an information centre here some day? It would be very useful.

Not if we get the same information as we are getting now.