asked the Minister for Transport if he has any intention of allowing independent carriers to operate on the Dublin-London air route in an effort to reduce fares.

4.

asked the Minister for Transport if he has received an application for a licence to operate a service on the Dublin-Gatwick route; if he has made a decision in the matter; if so, the decision; and, if not, when a decision will be made.

(Cavan-Monaghan): With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 3 and 4 together.

I understand that the UK authorities are considering the designation of a carrier for services between Gatwick and Dublin. Any such designation would fall to be processed within the terms of the UK/Ireland Bilateral Air Services Agreement. This agreement provides that the London-Dublin route may be operated by one carrier from each country. At present Aer Lingus and British Airways provide scheduled services on the route.

I do not know whether the Minister is aware that the London-Heathrow run is more attractive to operators. Is he aware that representatives of an independent airline told the Joint Oireachtas Committee on State-Sponsored Bodies that they could operate the London-Dublin run for 20 per cent to 25 per cent less than the fares now being charged?

(Cavan-Monaghan): I know from general knowledge that Dan Air are interested in providing a further service between London and Dublin. At the moment the question is regulated by a bilateral agreement between the two countries. If that agreement is to be altered, it will have to be re-negotiated. It would be natural to expect that, if the additional carrier is British-based, the move would come from the UK. No such formal application or designation has yet come. I would not be surprised if such an approach were initiated.

If such an application is made will it be given every consideration by the Minister's Department? Can he assure us that it will not be vetoed by vested interests? Does he agree with the concept of competition and free enterprise in this sphere?

(Cavan-Monaghan): If such a proposal is made from the other side, it will be considered seriously and it will be negotiated. It would be bad business, to say the least of it, on the part of the Minister if he were to pre-empt such negotiations by saying in advance what his attitude would be when negotiations are necessary.

Apart from Dan Air can the Minister tell the House is there an application from Laker Airways to operate on this route?

(Cavan-Monaghan): There is no application of any sort to the Minister's Department.

From any airline?

(Cavan-Monaghan): No.

None whatsoever?

(Cavan-Monaghan): Not in respect of this route.

Is the Minister aware that British Airways are pulling out of the London-Gatwick route?

(Cavan-Monaghan): I am not so aware. It may be so. I have not got that information.

The Minister is not in the same position to give information as he was on the last occasion. That is the reason Deputy Deasy put down the question about the application.

(Cavan-Monaghan): I am telling Deputy Reynolds there is no application before the Minister's Department for any alteration in the present bilateral agreement which regulates air transport between here and London. Nor, as far as I know, have the British authorities designated any company on whose behalf they would make an application. Those are the facts.

Would the Minister accept that there is an application in from the London side to operate on this route?

(Cavan-Monaghan): I would not know what applications or what internal representations are being made to the British authorities.

Would the Minister accept that what is happening on the other side is of no importance to the Minister for Transport? He has not read his brief.

(Cavan-Monaghan): I have read my brief and I am saying there is no application before the Minister. There is no intimation from the British authorities that they have designated any company.

I did not mention a designation. The Minister is trying to fudge and mislead the House.

(Cavan-Monaghan): That is unworthy of the Deputy.

It is not.

(Cavan-Monaghan): I am not trying to mislead the House. I would not know, and neither would my Department, what representations are made by British carriers to the British authorities.

That is the worst admission I ever heard from a Minister for Transport — that he would not know what is going on in a bilateral situation.

(Cavan-Monaghan): I would know at the stage of an approach from the other side, but no such approach has been made.

It is five months since I left the Department and I know that.