Kinsale gas contract with Northern Ireland
Reynolds questioned delays to the Northern Ireland supply contract and whether previously agreed terms were being reopened. Collins said negotiations continued on key terms—including transmission, capital contributions, escalation and currency—and that the Government remained committed to supplying gas, but would conclude only a contract acceptable to Ireland. The exchange continued amid disputes over the negotiations and the Chair’s limits on supplementary questions.
asked the Minister for Industry and Energy when he expects to sign the contract, which has already been negotiated, for the supply of Kinsale natural gas to the North of Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Comment on this
Negotiations are continuing at ministerial and official level for a supply of Kinsale natural gas to Northern Ireland. The two Governments involved have agreed, in principle, to a supply of gas being made available subject to agreement being reached on satisfactory terms. The current negotiations are directed at defining and clarifying the terms of sale which had been agreed in general terms. Subject to agreement on the issues now under discussion, I would then request Bord Gáis Éireann to enter into a supply contract with the appropriate purchasing authority in Northern Ireland.
Comment on this
Will the Minister be more specific and tell us exactly what is the position? Last May, agreement in principle was reached in Stormont Castle between Mr. Butler and me. Is the Minister now saying that the terms are being disputed, that new terms will have to be negotiated? Is there some deviation from the terms negotiated and approved by the previous Government last August?
Comment on this
Discussions are continuing in that regard. Of the 11 heads of agreement, six have been agreed together with one of the three annexes. The remaining five heads of agreement and the relevant annexes cover more crucial areas, such as the date of agreement, transmission, capital contributions, escalator and currencies. They are matters of a complex nature which will need a lot of negotiation in order that a fair deal is done for BGE.
Comment on this
The Minister has referred to five heads which are not agreed. I suggest to the Minister that before I left office agreement was reached. Who is trying to change the terms of that agreement? Not only was the capital cost agreed and the escalator, but the terms of the contract were agreed. The total supply was agreed. The Minister is now trying to say that somebody is trying to change them. Who is trying to change them? Is it our Minister or the Minister up there?
Comment on this
It is a matter for negotiation between Ministers and officials in the Departments concerned.
Comment on this
I am sure it is important, but it is a matter for an Estimate debate rather than Question Time.
Comment on this
Before I left office there was agreement between officials on all heads. I am trying to get from the Minister, who is trying to change the agreement, is it the Irish Minister for Industry and Energy or is it the British Government?
Comment on this
The Deputy can be assured that this Government are fully committed to bringing a supply of natural gas to Northern Ireland.
Comment on this
That is not the question I asked. I asked who is trying to change the terms which have been agreed.
Comment on this
The Deputy might let me answer. It is also important that the terms of the contract for the supply of gas should be beneficial to this country as well as Northern Ireland. This is a matter for negotiation between both Ministers. The negotiations are ongoing. There is no attempt to change the general principle of supplying gas to Northern Ireland.
Comment on this
The Deputy can raise it on the Adjournment or somewhere else, but I will not have it discussed at Question Time.
Comment on this
On a point of order, we want to be helpful and reasonable on this side of the House, but this is a matter of major national importance and national policy. People on this side of the House are entitled to investigate it fully. I have been listening and I suggest that Deputy Reynolds is not getting answers to perfectly valid and legitimate questions he is asking.
Comment on this
I should like to deal with the points raised by the Leader of the Opposition. He made the point that this is a major national issue. In the Chair's opinion that virtually excludes it from being dealt with in depth at Question Time. The Chair has no control over the way questions are answered. The Standing Order says that supplementary questions both as to relevance and to numbers are in the discretion of the Chair. I am exercising that discretion now. I am giving one further supplementary to Deputy Reynolds on this matter, and then I am passing on to the next question. Normally we deal with 25 to 30 questions in the hour allocated to Question Time. Today it looks as if we will deal with less than half of that number.
Comment on this
The next question is my Question No. 13 and I would be anxious to have it answered today if possible. That does not mean that in order to get a certain number of questions answered——
Comment on this
It is dealing with the order of business in this House. I want to suggest to you, Sir, that it is not a matter of priority in the order of this House that any particular number of questions should be answered.
Comment on this
You complained that we are dealing with a limited number of questions only. I am suggesting that the number of questions dealt with at Question Time is not a matter of priority.
Comment on this
Deputy Haughey will resume his seat. Standing Order No. 36 says that supplementary questions may be put only for further elucidation of the information requested, and shall be subject to the ruling of the Ceann Comhairle, both as to relevance and as to number. In pursuance of that Standing Order I am asking Deputy Reynolds to put one further supplementary and I am then moving to the next question.
Comment on this
I am making the point of order to you again, Sir, that you have made two statements in this House.
Comment on this
I have not made it yet so you cannot rule on it. You made two statements to the House. One is that because this is a matter of major national importance it is not suitable for investigation at Question Time.
Comment on this
I want to challenge that ruling, Sir. Secondly, I want to challenge your ruling that the number of questions dealt with at Question Time takes priority over the quality of the investigation of any particular issue.
Comment on this
The Leader of the Opposition will please sit down. If he wants to challenge the Chair's ruling there is a well defined way of doing that, and he will have to confine himself to it.
Comment on this
I want to give notice that I want to raise both these issues with the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.
Comment on this
You can have them raised, certainly. That is not the way to challenge the Chair's ruling. There is a well defined way of censuring the Chair.
Comment on this
This time I hope the Minister will give me straight answers to straight questions. Arising out of his last statement, is he suggesting that the terms negotiated and agreed in Belfast, and approved by the Irish Government, are not in the best interests of the country? Secondly, is he suggesting to me that the five heads he called out were not agreed before I left office? Will he deny that the officials in his own Department informed me before I left that agreement was reached in full by the officials on both sides? Finally, will he answer the question I asked earlier? Who is stopping the implementation of this agreement, the British Government or the Irish Government?
Comment on this
Nobody is stopping an agreement. It is a matter of concluding the negotiations which are in train at the moment. They deal with very difficult areas.
Comment on this
I am sure the Deputy is aware that we have to be careful with regard to establishing the position for payment for the natural gas in sterling when the sterling and the punt link is relatively volatile at this time. There are other matters which I mentioned to the Deputy. The negotiations relate to the period of the agreement, transmission problems, the capital contribution and the escalation. These are all matters which are very relevant——
Comment on this
Is the Minister saying the capital allocation has not been agreed? He is misleading the House.
Comment on this
At official and ministerial level there will have to be full negotiations and full discussions in order to arrive at a contract which is acceptable to this Government.
Comment on this
The allegations made by the Deputy are unfair. There is no reason why arrangements initiated by the previous Government should be concluded just like that. Of their nature the negotiations must be ongoing until we find a solution which is acceptable to my Government and which I can put before them.
Comment on this
He has not answered the last one. I asked him who had reservations about the contract negotiated with the British Government.
Comment on this
A Cheann Comhairle, you should not allow unfair allegations to be thrown at me from the other side of the House in an irresponsible manner. They are sitting over there and they are not prepared to treat Question Time seriously.
Comment on this
I do not think you should allow the Leader of the Opposition to get away with that statement. We try to do our best on this side of the House.
Comment on this
If the Minister gave us the facts there would be no need for this. The British Government are looking for a renegotiation of the terms because they did not suit them.
Comment on this
It is the case and I knew it before I left the Department. The Minister is misleading the House by giving information which he knows is not correct.