asked the Minister for Transport when the new retirement pensions for CIE workers will be finalised; if they will be paid retrospectively to the employees who retired within the last 12 months; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

9.

asked the Minister for Transport his plans to implement a pension scheme for CIE employees.

10.

asked the Minister for Transport the up-to-date position regarding CIE pensions.

: I propose to reply to Questions Nos. 8, 9 and 10 together.

I am taking it that the Deputies' questions refer to the proposed new pension scheme for CIE wages grades employees. As the Deputies will be aware, following the rejection by the contributing members of the proposed improvements in the existing scheme, my predecessor in July, 1982 authorised the continuance of negotiations between the company and the trade union group on a definitive pension scheme on similar lines to public sector type schemes as to contributions and benefits for the wages grades employees of CIE, the proposed scheme to be considered by the Government on the basis of prevailing financial circumstances when it was finalised. At a meeting with the CIE unions on 7 February 1983, I confirmed that the proposed scheme will be considered by the Government on this basis when the final draft is submitted to me. Negotiations are in progress at working party level at present and I understand that the question of retrospection in the case of retired members is being discussed in these negotiations.

It is not possible to say at this stage when a final scheme will be approved and confirmed.

: I am sure the Minister realises that it is important to bring in the retirement scheme as soon as possible especially in view of the fact that retired CIE employees have about £12 and this is not index-linked. I should like the Minister to assure me that everything possible will be done to introduce it as quickly as possible.

: Discussions are going on in the working party. As soon as they submit their report to me, I will consider it as constructively and positively as the financial position allows.

: Would the Minister agree that it is the lump sum element of the agreement which is the point at issue with the workers? Will there be any element of retrospection as far as the lump sum is concerned? Deputy McEllistrim's question referred to people who retired within the last 12 months.

: I would be very slow to make any comment until I have the submission from the working party. It would be wrong of me to come to conclusions before I have received that.

: Is the Minister in a position to say what the cost to the State will be of the proposed scheme? Can he tell us the number of people involved in the scheme and what figure there is in the Estimate this year for such a scheme if public funds are involved?

: There is no provision in the Estimates for this year. I cannot answer the Deputy's queries until I receive the submission from the working party. It would not be prudent for me to go further than that now.

: Has the Minister a rough figure?

: I must wait for the submission.

: Would the Minister not be able to give an estimate? Would he not be able to base it on the existing public service scheme?

: Is it £10 million or £100 million?

: It depends on the scheme which is submitted. I cannot give any estimate.

: Is the Minister aware that people in certain supervisory categories retired from CIE were covered by pensions but were not covered by social welfare and have less by way of pension than even the meagre pensions which old age pensioners receive? What plans has the Minister to deal with that?

: That is a separate question. If the Deputy puts down a question on that subject I should be delighted to answer it.

: What is the position regarding a number of CIE employees who were made redundant on a reduced pension? They were given to understand that if conditions improved they would receive a full pension. Employees who have been made redundant since then have been in receipt of a full pension. Is the Minister prepared to give full pension to these 11 former employees?

: That is a separate question which I shall be delighted to answer if the Deputy tables it.