asked the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs whether to his knowledge any person, other than himself, authorises the interception of mail or telephone communications; and if so, who.

: The Minister for Posts and Telegraphs has no statutory power to authorise the interception of mail, or telephone communications. The only person with that power is the Minister for Justice.

: I put down the question like this because the Minister is in charge of these services by law, and I wished him to state his own position before pursuing that of his colleagues. Is the Minister telling me the Minister for Justice has statutory authority, as distinct from common law authority, to intercept mail or telephone communications? I think he is wrong about that. The only person to his knowledge with such power is the Minister for Justice. Is that the case?

: The only person with statutory power is the Minister for Justice.

: Leaving aside the question of whether it is statutory or non-statutory — I think it is non-statutory — is the Minister saying definitely that the only person with authority to intercept either kind of communication is the Minister for Justice?

: That is correct.

: In that case will the Minister please have urgently investigated the statement made on at least one occasion, and I think more than one occasion, by the former Minister for Defence, Deputy Power, during the earlier part of this session that he had on occasion himself authorised the tapping of telephone communications in his position as Minister for Defence? I put down the question because that was a new one on me.

: That is another question, Deputy.

: I want to know from the Minister whether he would like to undertake to the House to pursue to the bitter end the question of whether or not the services of which the Minister is in control were interfered with on the authority of the then Minister for Defence and, if so, how that position came about.

: I can help the Deputy by drawing on my own experience as Minister for Justice. The Minister for Defence can authorise a request to the Minister for Justice, but only the Minister for Justice can authorise and sign a warrant for the interception of mail. No warrant can be signed by anybody else, nor have any other warrants ever been received in the Department of Posts and Telegraphs.

: Does that mean that, in respect of this matter, the Minister for Defence is in the same position as the police and that through the police he can request the Minister for Justice to issue such a warrant?

: The Minister for Defence is largely in the same position as the Garda Commissioner. Both can request the interception of telephonic or postal messages but it is up to the Minister for Justice to authorise them.

: I do not mean to contradict the Minister because I am speaking off the top of my head. Leaving aside the question of whether the authority is statutory or, as I think, non-statutory, is it the case that if it is non-statutory the position of the Minister for Defence is just as informal as that of the Minister for Justice? What security has anybody that there will not be a further list of Ministers or other authorities added to the number of those at whose request a warrant to tap a telephone may be issued?

: I wish to assure the House that the authority is statutory. I would be very slow to dispute that question with such a distinguished lawyer as Deputy Kelly but that is the situation.

: There is an argument going on and that is bad enough but that argument is based on assumptions and that is intolerable.