asked the Minister for Finance if he will give details of Ireland's external borrowings in Deutschmarks since the beginning of 1977; and if he will state in respect of each loan (a) the amount in Deutschemarks, (b) the amount in Irish pounds and (c) the rate of interest.

The answer is in the form of a tabular statement which I propose to circulate in the Official Report.

The statement shows the amount of Exchequer borrowings in Deutschemarks, their equivalent in Irish pounds at date of drawdown and the rate of interest. In the case of floating interest rate loans, the highest and lowest applicable interest rate margins over the Eurocurrency interbank rate are indicated.

Following is the statement:

Is it true that the rates of interest charged to the Irish Government on money borrowed in Deutschemarks is only a fraction of that charged to the ordinary borrower for agricultural or industrial purposes here? If moneys available to agriculture and industry were at the same rates as those paid by the Government, would the Minister not agree we would have a much lower rate of unemployment and much higher agricultural and industrial production?

As far as the interest rates are concerned, we have been fortunate for a number of years past in securing what are relatively favourable rates on international markets. For example, although I think this is dealt with in the statement, we compare favourably with the Eurocurrency inter-bank rate when we borrow for the kind of loans that the Deputy has mentioned. Those funds are needed for Exchequer borrowing requirements and it would not necessarily be the case that loans for other purposes would be available at the same rates of interest.

Can the Minister tell the House, in round figures, by how much the gross Irish national debt has become inflated in Irish pounds as a consequence of the recent upward movement in the value of the Deutschemark and the downward movement——

That is a separate question, Deputy Kelly.

I appreciate that but perhaps the Minister has the information.

It is not even reasonably associated with it.

I have heard sheep called in from much further away valleys than that in my time here.

Is it true that the Department of Finance make a profit on the rates? Are the Department of Finance getting the money at a lower rate from the Federal Republic of Germany than it is charging to farmers and others?

They are also separate questions.

It would be nice to see the State making money for a change.

The Minister indicated, in his reply, that this money would not necessarily be available. I was not speaking about money borrowed on behalf of banks or the ACC for lending to farmers, I was speaking about borrowing by the Government for their own purposes. The Minister said that this money would not necessarily be available to industrialists and farmers for development. Would the Minister indicate if he has in mind any means through which money so cheaply borrowed by the Government can be made available to agriculture and industry and which would alleviate many of the problems faced by those sectors?

That question would be more appropriate on the Finance Bill.

The moneys we are talking about and which are dealt with in the statement which I am circulating are borrowings carried out for Exchequer purposes. I was concerned to point out that this is sovereign country borrowing, and funding would not necessarily be available at the same rates of interest for the kind of borrowing the Deputy has in mind.