asked the Minister for Social Welfare the cost of abolishing the means test for payment of old age pensions.

The estimated annual cost, at July 1983 rates, is £133 million.

Would the Minister agree that a means test, as it is commonly known, is an insulting and degrading form of investigation for deciding on eligibility for old age pension? Would he agree also that there seems to be no uniform investigatory procedures as far as this is concerned? Will he, once and for all, remove this unseemly practice from the social welfare code?

I do not see anything whatsoever unseemly about a means test. For example, people could be in receipt of a pension of £20,000 a year and apply for a social welfare pension. Is the Deputy saying they would be entitled to get it? I am sorry, I do not see that as the function of social welfare where our business is to provide means to people who have not got any. I indicated to the Deputy the cost of removing the means test, which would be £133 million. That, then, would have a knock-on effect in other areas of means-testing. Therefore, one would be talking about very large sums of money. I might ask if that would be the way to expend any additional funds one might have.

I do not accept the figure the Minister has quoted as accurate, £133 million; £133 million to do what?

I will give the Deputy the facts.

Please.

There are 334,000 persons over the age of 66, or aged 66; of those 267,000 are in receipt of pensions of one kind or another from the Department of Social Welfare — old age contributory and non-contributory pensions, retirement pensions, widows' pensions and invalidity pensions. This leaves approximately 58,000 people who are not in receipt of any pension from the Department and who would be eligible for the old age pension were the means test to be abolished. The estimated cost of paying the maximum old age pension, at July rates, to an additional 58,000 persons would result in approximately £119 million, and an additional £14 million for giving the maximum rate pension to 20 per cent at present, receiving reduced rates.

At present what is the function of the pension committee? What purpose do they serve?

That is a separate question.

No, it is related to this means test.

No, it has to do with the cost of abolishing the means test. I am calling Question No. 11.

11.