asked the Minister for Agriculture the extent of co-operation between his Department and the IDA in the matter of introducing importation substitution in the food industry.

There is continuous close liaison between my Department and the IDA in relation to the granting of aid, both national and FEOGA, for food processing projects.

The scope for import substitution is being examined by an inter-departmental committee and when this study is completed my Department will be consulting the IDA about further steps that might be taken in regard to the provision of processing facilities that would enable imports to be displaced.

Would the Minister agree that there is a very little sign of the groundwork in this respect? Would the Minister not agree that there is a lot of factory space available, particularly advance factories, where such operations could be set up to compete against imports? It must be tackled positively and vigorously if we are not to lose out in the food market.

The Deputy used the key word to the whole issue and this is "compete". Unfortunately many food processing industries, particularly in the fruit and vegetable areas, have not been able to compete with foreign imports. We are in a free trade area which makes our position all the more difficult. We must be competitive. I have said that repeatedly. We cannot have a system of protectionism. Unfortunately, too many firms are not able to compete at present. I hope we can improve that situation. We have set up a number of committees and the IFA have also set up a horticultural committee initially in the fresh fruit and vegetable area, but ultimately in the whole processing sector.

We seem to have our eyes set on manufacturing industry and exports and have completely ignored the importation of foodstuffs. We must do something more definite than just set up committees to examine this. Surveys and so on are the curse of the country.

That could apply to any Department and not just the Department of Agriculture. I agree with the sentiments expressed by the Deputy. I have been in consultation with the Minister for Industry and Energy and we are putting a senior member of the staff of the Department of Agriculture on the board of the IDA to encourage the food processing industry.

Will the Minister tell the House the areas where we can begin import substitution?

That is what I hope the interdepartmental monitory committee will pinpoint.

Many food processing operations have not received any assistance from the IDA. Will the Minister take this up with his Department and the IDA?

I am not so aware but I will be only too glad to take up any case the Deputy can bring to my notice.

The Minister made the point that free trade was part of the problem. Will he take this up at EEC level and make a special plea for the food processing and horticultural industry? We are entitled to some concession as a food producing nation.

We would not come out of such encounter very well considering we export three times as much food as we import. We could hardly ask for concessions against imports.

The Minister said we cannot compete. Is that because we are not using the right techniques or is it because of labour costs?

It is a combination of factors. Cost is one, but a major factor is the size of the market in relation to the major EEC countries, the French and British in particular, who have huge combines producing processed food at low cost. We find it very difficult to compete against them.