asked the Minister for Agriculture the number of farmers in the western counties who had applied to the farm development service for farm investments prior to budget day, which had not been approved on that day.

In the 11 counties wholly within the western region a total of 2,382 applications from farmers for grant aid under the farm modernisation scheme were refused as a result of the suspension of grant aid for farm buildings and fixed assets and the termination of grant aid for mobile equipment. Figures are not available for the parts of west Cork and west Limerick within the western region.

As the Minister has details for other parts of the country can he give me the exact number for County Donegal?

I am afraid I have not got the figure for Donegal. I will see that it is forwarded to the Deputy.

Would the Minister accept that 400 would be a reasonable number? Would he also accept that many people in Donegal commenced work prior to the receipt of written approval? Does he accept that many people in Donegal did this in the past in anticipation of receipt of this grant? Does the Minister also accept that he and his Government have done the farmers of Donegal a great injustice?

I do not think Donegal would have a figure of 400. I will have it checked and sent to the Deputy. As in most other counties, farmers have been in this category. Unless written approval from the FDS office was with the farmer he would not be entitled to grant aid.

What did the Minister mean when he said there was a substitute under the western drainage scheme and the programme for western development?

Some of the applicants in County Donegal and elsewhere in the west would be eligible under the western package for grants at 40 per cent in certain cases and 30 per cent on fixed assets, that is, under the western package programme for farm buildings, and so on.

In view of the size of the farms in Donegal, does the Minister accept that it is impossible to come within the guidelines of a 20 per cent increase in livestock over a number of years? What the Minister is telling us now is cosmetic. Does he accept that?

I do not accept that. No one is more interested in and involved with the wellbeing of small farmers than I am. This western package can be tailored to suit the needs of the west.

The Minister should pay them their grants if he is so concerned about them.

Deputy Byrne is being quite disorderly.

I regret interrupting at this stage but I put down a question and I would like to hear the answer.

So would the Chair. The Chair is doing its utmost to get order.