asked the Taoiseach whether he discussed the New Ireland Forum at his recent meeting with the British Prime Minister in Stuttgart.

2.

asked the Taoiseach whether it has been agreed by himself and the British Prime Minister that a Heads of Government meeting between them will be held this year; and, if so, whether definite arrangements have been made.

I propose, a Cheann Comhairle, to take Questions Nos. 1 and 2 together.

As Deputies will be aware, it is not customary to disclose details of confidential discussions with other Heads of Government.

As I informed the House on 22 June in my statement about the European Council meeting, the Prime Minister and I agreed to a further substantive meeting, which will probably take place before the end of the year. The precise arrangements for the meeting will be announced shortly in advance, in accordance with the normal practice.

I accept what the Taoiseach says about the position in regard to the confidentiality of these meetings but I must direct his attention to a statement made by the Prime Minister in the House of Commons in which she indicated that she had brief talks on the margins of the European Council with the Taoiseach and that anything that was said would not have troubled the Honourable Gentleman—the Honourable Gentleman being Dr. Ian Paisley. She went on to say: "We did not discuss the new Ireland Forum and I constantly make it clear, as it is clear at all times the constitutional position of Northern Ireland is for the people of Northern Ireland and for this Parliament. I reaffirm that gladly." Now the Taoiseach may be reticent and perhaps rightly so, about the contents of that discussion at that meeting, but that reticence apparently does not apply to the British Prime Minister. Perhaps the Taoiseach would care to comment.

No, I would not. I take the view which Deputy Haughey expressed on 31 March 1982 after a European Council meeting that it is not customary to disclose details of conversations of this type and I do not propose to disclose details now for that reason. It is a matter of speculation anyway.

Surely the Taoiseach must accept now that the British Prime Minister has categorically stated the New Ireland Forum was not discussed, that he is equally at liberty to tell us it was not and, if so, does he not think it is unreal and unnatural that a meeting between himself and the British Prime Minister could take place at this stage without any discussion on the New Ireland Forum, its work, its objectives and the ambitions we all share with regard to it?

I do not propose to make any comment on what was said at the meeting and in that I am following the practice in this House. We have our own practice here and I am following the precedent set by the Deputy in that.

Your reticence, through the Chair, does you credit. May I move then to the question of a future meeting between the Taoiseach and the British Prime Minister? May we take it that it was agreed such a meeting would take place this year and, if so, will it be earlier or later? I am not asking the Taoiseach to disclose any of the details which would affect the security situation but the House and the people would like to know what exactly is intended. The Taoiseach spoke to the British Prime Minister at some length and I think now he must tell us whether or not there is a specific agreement for this year and, if so, when.

As was stated after the meeting, a meeting will probably take place before the end of this year. As to the timing of it I can only repeat what the Deputy stated after the meeting on 22 June 1982 that it is not the custom to say in advance when a summit meeting is likely to be held.

I am not asking the Taoiseach to tell me in advance when it is likely to be held. I am only asking him to confirm, if possible, that it is agreed that such a meeting will take place. It is of vital significance to many of us whether or not such a meeting will take place before the Forum has reported and I think he should tell us if he can — if he cannot let him say so — whether or not it is agreed a meeting will take place this year and, if so, will it be the very end of the year, or earlier in the year, or when? I am not asking for specific weeks or days or anything like that.

As I said, it will probably take place before the end of this year. A date has not in fact been fixed but if it were, the Deputy would understand my not giving it. The exact arrangements in respect of this meeting have not yet been made but it will probably take place before the end of this year. The relationship between that and the Forum is that the Forum is to report by the end of the year but, as we have not a date fixed with the British Prime Minister, I cannot relate it to any point in time.