asked the Minister for Health the total finance available to the Western Health Board for the running of their services in 1984; and if agreement has been reached with the board in achieving the savings necessary to meet his allocation.

The 1984 allocation for the Western Health Board in respect of their direct expenditure is £105.130 million. This is £4.5 million less than the board's estimate of their financial requirements.

The board have approved of measures involving reductions in expenditure estimated at £2.5 million. A meeting is being arranged between officers of the Department and the board to consider the further measures needed to contain expenditure within the approved level and to assess their implications.

The Minister says that a reduction of £2.5 million has been agreed with the board. Would the Minister indicate the areas where the reductions are to take place?

I do not have the exact details because it was a relatively recent meeting. However, on 10 February the board were unanimous in approving measures to achieve cutbacks in services in the order of approximately £2.5 million. They also unanimously authorised the CEO to hold further discussions as a matter of urgency with officers of the Department of Health on the question of the other £2 million. I understand that this meeting has not yet been arranged. The only information I have is that about £0.5 million is to be saved by reducing purchases and £443,000 is to be saved on locums in the general hospital area. In other areas, special hospitals and so on, savings will be achieved mainly through reducing purchases. I never cease to be amazed at what health boards can do to run their show.

It is interesting to note that £2.5 million has been agreed unanimously by the board. Is the Minister aware that the health board have indicated that it would be virtually impossible to effect a further saving of £2 million without laying off permanent staff and closing wards in various institutions?

I am aware of that I am sensitive to those issues and have readily acceded to the request for a meeting between officers of the Department of Health and the Western Health Board. We will see what the outcome of that meeting will be.

We must move on.

I have asked only one supplementary and these are very important matters which concern the health of people in the west. May I take it that the Minister's sensitivity to the problems generated by the reductions extends to making extra funds available to accommodate the shortfall in the allocation?

There is no such provision. The health board have received a total of £120 million to run the area. That is £105 million nett and indirect services are paid for by my Department on behalf of the health board in voluntary hospitals.

Will the Minister accept responsibility for any crisis——

That is argument.

Will the Minister accept responsibility for any crisis that arises because of the lack of funds to provide proper services for people in the Western Health Board area?

That is hypothetical.

It is not hypothetical. They cannot live within the allocation and the Minister is not prepared to give them the extra money needed.

We are now in the middle of February and I still have not heard of a crisis.

Will the Minister accept that cuts in the nature of even £2.5 million must result in a reduction in the level of services?

When a health board take a unanimous decision admittedly somewhat reluctantly, they are fully cognisant of all the options open to them and they are particularly aware that they should not impose undue hardship on the population they serve.

In view of the fact that section 31 of the Health Act was implemented, did the health board have any choice in the matter? Does the Minister accept that these savage cutbacks will result in a serious drop in the level of service, if not in the quality of service?

I do not accept that. I am absolutely convinced that within the limited resources available to me, and having ensured that no mad, outrageous and profligate political promises have been made by me, that in 1984 the health boards are living within their budgets, delivering a very high level of service, at least as high as they delivered in 1983. They are doing it because, quite frankly, we have not indulged in——

It is because the Minister has wielded the hatchet on them.

I have called Question No. 9. Will the Minister please answer Question No. 9?

For the first time ever they are getting some political direction.

That is direction towards——

I do not go around like the leader of the Deputy's party writing little letters.

Will the Minister not malign the leader of our party in this matter. This matter relates to medical services for the people in the west of Ireland——

The Deputy is being disorderly. Will Deputy Flynn please keep quiet?

I am trying to extract information from the Minister.