asked the Minister for Agriculture the action he intends to take to protect the Irish pig and bacon industry as a result of the closure of processing operations and the serious difficulty which has arisen in getting pigs slaughtered.

12.

asked the Minister for Agriculture if he will make a marketing subsidy available to the Irish pig and bacon trade to tide them over the very difficult depression in the market place; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

I propose to take Questions Nos. 11 and 12 together.

At present the pigmeat industry is experiencing difficulties not alone in Ireland but in practically all EEC countries. I raised the very serious position of pig producers at the January meeting of the Council of Agriculture Ministers and I am pleased to be able to say that action followed immediately. A scheme of aids for private storage of pigmeat was introduced as a result and this should help the market situation. There were some difficulties during December last about intake of pigs by factories following the closing-down of one bacon factory. These difficulties have been overcome. It is not possible under EEC rules to grant a national subsidy.

The Minister must be aware of the serious hardship, in the Munster area in particular, in having pigs slaughtered from November up to this date. When the fattening period is prolonged there is deterioration in the quality of the meat because the pigs become over-fat. That, in these present recessionary times, has further crippled pig producers in the Cork area. What rescue plans has the Minister to save what is left of the industry at this stage?

I am aware that the pig trade has been seriously affected for the past year, particularly seriously prior to Christmas and immediately after it. Matters have now improved somewhat, but not as much as we would like. As regards what we can do for the pig industry, I might point out that under EEC rules we are prohibited from giving national aids.

Fair enough. I accept that point. However, there are ways and means of getting around EEC regulations — for example, transport subsidies to the Pigs and Bacon Commission to sell the products on foreign markets, or giving the commission a further injection of money to promote these products. In our own Dáil restaurant, I have not seen pork on the menu on any sitting day since the Dáil reconvened. For the record of the House, I would like the Minister to have a look at that matter, because pork is one of the best quality meats that we can have.

Unfortunately, I am not on the restaurant committee and there are other matters which I would like to raise also. I am not in a position to do what the Deputy wishes in ensuring that pork and bacon appear on the menu. I shall consider what Deputy O'Keeffe has asked concerning the possibility of introducing a transport subsidy.

In view of the two-fold importance of our pig industry and the reference which the Minister made to the decline in recent time in employment in that industry, the decline among the bacon factories in my own city and county has been frightening, as has been the catastrophic loss to the producers. Is the Minister telling this House that he is merely surrendering to the situation and is not prepared in any way to help the pig industry and restore some of the buoyancy which previously existed, with consequent gains to the farming community and, above all, to employment in cities like Cork, where it was a traditional employer down through the years? We are now reduced to one bacon factory. Is the Minister surrendering because he cannot move against EEC rules?

I have already answered Deputy O'Keeffe on that question. That Deputy accepted what I had to say about my inability to give national aids.

I call Deputy Leonard.

Just a second, if this Minister thinks that he is going to get away with that soft option——

The Deputy's last question was answered. I have now called Deputy Leonard.

Before the Chair does that, I shall not be a moment.

I have called Deputy Leonard, I am sorry.

I want to know what specific aids the Minister is giving to the west Cork farmers, who are bearing the greatest amount of suffering because of the recent closures in their city? These farmers have to transport pigs perhaps 240 miles.

I have already stated——

The Minister is not answering the question.

The Deputy is insisting on asking questions and is not allowing the Minister the common courtesy of a reply.

We are not permitted within the EEC regulations to give aid. I have stated that I shall look into the suggestion made by Deputy O'Keeffe of the possibility of transport subsidies.

How soon will we have news of that?

Would the Minister not agree that for the future of the pigmeat industry we must try to get into added-value products and use pork and bacon as a basis for prepared foods if we are going to make full use of these products?

The Deputy is quite correct. That situation pertains in most of our agricultural sectors. I might point out that our exports of pork and bacon in 1983 increased by 12 per cent on those of 1982 — from 52,000 to 58,000 tonnes. The cause of the depression in the market is lack of demand at home and on our main export market in Britain. Luckily enough, we have found other major outlets, such as Japan, which have more than compensated for the loss of some of the British market. There is an oversupply in Europe generally, which has given rise to this problem. That is the main reason.

I have a question to ask the Minister.

(Limerick West): Would the Minister agree——

I am sorry, Deputy Noonan.

I call Deputy Noonan and then Deputy Byrne and then I shall move on. Do the Deputies wish to spend the rest of Question Time on this question?

It is important enough to do so.

The Ceann Comhairle's constituency is the best in Ireland in that regard.

(Limerick West): With particular reference to Question No. 12, is the Minister aware that the promotion of pigmeat on the home market leaves a lot to be desired? There is certainly an opening there. Are there any plans within the Department, or within the pig industry generally, to promote the sale of pigmeat on the home market?

That is really a matter for the Pigs and Bacon Commission. As the Deputy knows, we have underwritten a considerable sum for that commission in recent weeks.

(Limerick West): I cannot accept that reply from the Minister which amounts to washing his hands of this problem.

The Deputy will have to find another way of raising that question.

(Limerick West): The Minister is responsible for the Pigs and Bacon Commission. Will he talk to the commission and point out their lack of promotion of the sale of pigmeat on the home market? There is no point in the Minister washing his hands of the problem.

I certainly would not mind talking to the Pigs and Bacon Commission, but it is their responsibility. That is what I said to the Deputy.

The Minister is the Minister for Agriculture.

The Minister for Agriculture should not become directly involved in marketing.

Are we being too sensitive about the EEC commandments, if I may call them so? France and many other countries have found ways of helping their native industries. At this time of unemployment, with figures above 200,000, there are thousands of jobs at stake in this industry.

That is not a question, Deputy.

Would the Minister consider ways of getting around these EEC rules, in the national interest? The French and the Dutch are doing it, so why not the Irish?

I call Deputy MacSharry.

Does the Minister want to reply?

No, not really.

For goodness' sake.

Because of all the people involved not only in pig producing but all who supply the food, would the Minister take an initiative similar to that taken in like circumstances some years ago and call together the producer groups, the curers and the Pigs and Bacon Commission, chair such a meeting and come forward with some solution to protect this very vital sector of our agricultural industry?

As I have said, if I thought it would serve a useful purpose, I should be only too glad to do so.

I think that the Minister should take the initiative.

I have had talks with various representative groups in the industry, none of whom have suggested such a move. As I say, this is a general problem in Europe, not specific to this country. However, I shall certainly consider the suggestion made by the Deputy.

Could I ask the Minister to take the initiative, because I believe there will be a response from those concerned?

Would the Minister agree that we are the hardest hit country within the EEC as regards pig profitability and that our losses are something in the region of £10 to £12 a head?

That is a very difficult thing to evaluate. I know that pig producers in Germany suffered tremendous losses last year.

Does the Minister realise that what we are discussing here is the pig industry, which is dying at present in terms of job losses alone, not to talk about the impact on the primary producers involved in the industry who will be going to the wall in a matter of months? There is a complete and absolute lack of co-ordination between the producers, the processers and the marketing end of the industry. As a follow on to Deputy Mac-Sharry's question, there is an urgent need to take steps to try to establish some proper co-ordination in the industry.

I think that I have answered that question. I am aware that a serious situation has lasted for some time. I did say that I would give consideration to the suggestion put forward.

A Cheann Comhairle——

I would ask the Deputies to be — rational, I think, is a better word — and to be reasonable on this question. We are dragging on these questions for far too long. This is not the way Question Time is supposed to be run and it is not fair to Members who have questions down to other Ministers and who have been waiting for weeks for a reply.

I have asked no questions. In view of the fact that the Minister says that he is well aware that the pig industry is in dire straits, will he not now consider a subsidy to carry the industry over these difficult times?

That question has been asked before.

I know it has but I am asking the Minister to give the subsidy if he admits the pig industry is in serious difficulty. If he seriously believes that, then he should be prepared to do something about it. I am asking him if he will do something about it.

Nationally subsidies are illegal.

The Minister is using that as an excuse, something to hide behind.

I am not making excuses.

Will the Minister do something about it if he is serious?